Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old

[* Paula *]

Thanks Jane,

That is a great idea.  I will definitely give a new bedtime routine a try.

I have been thinking about the stairgate by her bedroom door, will definitely give that a try and see how it goes.

Thanks for the ideas ladies.  Keep em coming.  I am desperat 

[Purplecattypants]

Maybe take her to the docs for a checkup if this doesn't settle? You know how prone she is to illnesses....

[* Paula *]

I was thinking that too Ang, but she has just finished a course of antibiotics, and all in all is acting her normal self all the other times.

This child was defintely sent to geep me guessing 

[Purplecattypants]

Hmmmm...its so difficult isnt it! Especially before they can communicate properly. Did you ever start her on the probiotics btw?

[* Paula *]

The docs suggested a multi vitimin one to use for when they have been poorly (cannot remembe then name at the mo), so have been using this (it is an orange liquid)

[Purplecattypants]

Abidec?

[sherry lynn]

Paula - I'm thinking it's medical too because the last time she was that bad at night she ended up having that really bad throat infection. Do you think it could be something like that? Along with maybe the sleep needs changing.

[rach]

Oh {{{HUGS}}} hun!

I agree, get the bedtime routine done - low key, quiet etc etc.  When it comes to her getting out of bed and not settling at bedtime, then I would only talk to her once, telling her it is time for bed.  After that, I wouldn't speak to her, and I would avoid eye contact as it sounds like she's enjoying the game of getting your attention and you talking to her.  So cutting that isn't giving her what she wants.

With regards to the night waking and the nightmare you had the other night, well I remember Charlotte doing this a couple of times and OMG it is awful, but what I did in the end was sit on her bed with her, but with my back to her and not saying anything.  She would lie there and eventually would go to sleep - could this be worth a try?

I hope that you get some joy soon hun xx

[*Natasha*]

Just dropping off some more HUGS and support hun 

[~Karen~]

Hi Paula - I found it!  We had another bad bedtime last night but much better tonight.  I put him down for a super early nap today and did wi/wo at bedtime and he was asleep by about 645pm so I'm really hoping on a decent night.  He sure does need it!

We had an orange liquid vitamin for when they're run down as well but can't remember the name of it either!

[deckchariot]

{{{{{{hugs}}}}} Paula - I'm so sorry.  If she's always been high on A times and low on sleep, I'd cut that nap back.  At 18 mos, the nap goes down to 2 hrs and nighttime to 11.5, at 2, it drops to 1.5 in the day and 11 - 11.5 at night, so I'm guessing she's already hit the 2 yo bit and needs less - especially since she does well on days without a nap.  Try keeping it to 1 hr and following some of the suggestions about the bedtime routine.  Rach's advice is great about not talking to her with the wi/wo back to bed bit.  I'm filing that one away for me

[Canwi]

With the others on all the advice given Paula.
Couple of ideas:
- would napping every second day work for you?  If she's a higher A-time child then this might work
- take the plunge and ditch the nap but pull her bedtime forward an hour or so to compensate.  Drastic, but it may be the answer.  Just spent some time reading through nap sections in the BWSAYP and BW for toddlers as well as "Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child" by Marc Weissbluth.  Most kids are still napping at 2, but there is a small percentage who have ditched their naps by then.  Maybe Abbi is in that percentage.
Sorry I've got no wonder answers.

[huntersmummyinoz]

aw paula, huge hugs hun no earth shattering suggestions to share but i'll give you what i've got anyway:

- i was wondering about 2 year old molars too, hunter's sleep craziness started 2 mths before we had any sign of his 1 year molars.
- is she still on her reflux milk for night time?
- what are nursery nap times, could the try and put her down a little later and only let her nap an hour, 1.5?
- what is wake up time/bedtime at the moment (well that you are aiming for )? i know she used to be a 12hr night sleeper but maybe needs adjustments to sleep 11hrs now in order to get a nap???
- when hunter was around 12mths we added another bedtime story as we found he needed the longer wind down, i am now thinking of adding another one (so 3) as he is getting a little restless at bedtime again. we lay out two sets of pjs and he chooses which ones to wear (we started this to help getting him out of the bath without protesting, but could be worth a try).
- when does she eat dinner and does she have a snack? we found hunter does better with a big snack in the afternoon and a big dinner at 7pm, right before bath, pjs and bedtime routine. he seems to need a full belly to go to bed for the night and he was starting to protest when we did it the other way around.
- what sort of activities is she doing in the last hour/hour and a half before bed? maybe need to keep it low key, low lighting for at least the last 30 mins, etc
- and similar to rach's advise on how to handle it but: when she gets out of bed the first time, say your goodnight phrase and take her back to bed, second time just say 'nightnight' or 'bedtime' or something equally short, third and subsequent times, no talking. be as boring as possible. this is a supernanny technique (hope it's ok to write that....). and suggestion was to wait for them to come out of their room before doing this for a few nights, however if no improvements then to wait in their room instead - kneel or sit at their door and face the door (so your back to her to minimise eye contact) and same thing using phrase the first time, etc then saying nothing.

kirry

[* Paula *]

Thank you so much for your replies ladies, I really appreciate them 

Ang, the multivitimin we are using is called Minadex.  Do you think I should use a probiotic as well as a multivitimin?

Sherry, I don't think that Abi is sick.  She has just recently gotten over  a bad throat infection and finished the antibiotics last week I think.  She is eating ok and is happy the other times 

Rach, thanks so much for your input.  I like your idea about only saying once and then not talking and minimal contact.  That is what I eventually did to get her to sleep the other night.  I lay by the side of her on her bed and stroked her hair closing my eyes pretending to be asleep and she eventually fell asleep.

Hi Karen, how did your night go?

Thanks for the input Michelle, it does make sense about her probably needing less sleep.

Canwi, you have some valid suggestions too.  My DS dropped his nap at 2 and has not napped since (unless he is ill), I am wondering if DD is heading the same way.  With regards to napping every second day, she generally does this at nursery, she probably only naps 2-3 times a week at nursery now, but always has a nap on the weekend. 

With regards to dropping the nap completely, I am so worried she will get OT and cause more NW's.  She is showing signs of still needing her nap, but probably not every day.

Thanks Kirry  I am still not ruling out the 2 year molars.  She has been chewing on her fingers, but nothing over the ordinary.

Last night was not too bad.  She got out of bed 3 times.  The 3rd time I did not go up to her as I was downstairs, and she was not up long and then put her self to bed.  She woke at around 3:30 and came into our room.  I took her straight back to bed and expected it to be a bad night but she did not come out again 

Today she did not nap in nursery, and took about 3 attempts to put her to bed and she went to sleep.  Fingers crossed for a decent night.

Thanks again for all your support ladies.

[huntersmummyinoz]

crossing fingers and toes for you hun