Author Topic: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old  (Read 5714 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline deckchariot

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 361
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 8248
  • Location: Virginia, USA
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2009, 02:24:14 am »
so glad you're seeing some improvement!!!!  fingers crossed!!!
Michelle




Offline speechie

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 303
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 11102
  • 7 years of spirited bliss!
  • Location: New Hampshire
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2009, 22:22:05 pm »
Hi honey! Fingers crossed for a good night-
Reading through, to me, it sounds like she's getting ready to drop that nap...One of my good friends IRL told me her DD dropped her nap at 2 yo...sorry...probably not what you want to hear.
Also, FWIW, Nick's sleep is BAD when teething, yet he's pretty happy all day...go figure.
Have you thought of melatonin for one or two nights? It's helped me with bad sleeping patterns in the past...
Hugs and hang in there!
Cathie
                Nick spirited angel, born August 2, 2007

Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2009, 23:06:55 pm »
Hugs love! There is NOTHING more frustrating than a kid playing games at bedtime AND getting up in the night.  It's like you never catch a break!

At 20 months I'd almost be willing to bet money that canines are on their way in.  Those are the most painful teeth, worse than molars.  Kids start feeling them LONG before they appear.  ibuprofin is a better medication choice than parcet.  and also I'd probably alternate the 2 meds if you get more than waking (e.g. ibuprofin before bed and then first NW give parcet.)

I don't know if you've noticed this in the past, but when LOs are teething they usually start being more tired than normal.  You have what sounds like a spirited LO who when exhausted just goes lights out at night (rather than having copious NWs).  But just run-of-the-mill OT will cause her to have NWs.  So, we need to kick that in the butt!

I realize she's had longer A times than most and has been on 1 nap since 10 months old, but 6 hours A time while also attending nursery is probably the problem -- at least when she's teething.  I would try bedtime at 5-5.5 hours post nap and see if that helps.  If 5.5 hours doesn't work after 3 days then go down to 5 hours and see what happens.  I *know* this probably doesn't make sense given her personality but we see this behavior A LOT on the toddler boards and I'd say 90% of the time and earlier bedtime does the trick -- sometimes it has to be a whole hour earlier!  Right now she's already OT which causes playing and then she's SUPER OT and just can't settle.  Get her down early enough and that should help!


For NWs I would NOT do WI/WO right now.  If she's teething she needs the cuddles and soothing you can provide.  Also, it's just exacerbating her sleep problems.  I'd also extend wind down -- add more stories, or other relaxing activities like quiet music or massage.  That is another change we see at this age -- they often need a better division between activity and sleep and so lengthening wind down helps a lot!  One thing I often recommend is reinforce the idea that EVERYONE is sleepy and going to sleepy -- even the outside world and inanimate objects.  This is something that they're starting to sort of understand: that other people/things are like them!  So, for instance, on your way to her room you might look out the window and say "Look! Mr. Tree is going to sleep now. Night-night Mr. Tree! There goes Mr. Bird on his way to bed. Night-night Mr. Bird!" Then when in her room, tell her stuffed animals night-night and give them hugs and kisses.  You might even tuck them into bed.  And then more cuddles with her before sleep.  If you're used to just leaving the room after lights out, perhaps it's time to lay/sit next to her and just talk over your day a bit, maybe make up a story, or talk about what's going to happen tomorrow.  Talk about how she needs her energy that she gets from sleep in order to play.  One of my son's favorite things at sleepy times is for me to act out what will happen if he doesn't get enough sleep  -- I sort of tip my head to the side, stick out my tongue, close my eyes, and got "aaaaaa" in sort of a dead tone.  He thinks that's hilarious; then we talk about how sleep gives us energy to play.  She won't totally get it, but it's good to help her understand what sleep is for.


She's a little young for reward charts; some kids can do it at this age, but many need to be closer to 2.  But if you think she might understand a chart, make one up and put it in her room.  Then you let her pick out a sticker that she gets to put on her chart in the AM if she doesn't get out of bed at bedtime and call for you.  You can give her books to read in bed if you like -- let her feel like a big girl if you want -- but she is not to run out of bed.  Another great reward is a hand stamp; toddlers love those! 


Try the routine change and tell me what happens! Give it 3 days of course!
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2009, 23:09:29 pm »
The reason I doubt she's ready to drop nap is b/c nights aren't lengthening enough on no-nap days.  I'd really try early bedtime to see what happens... You can still limit nap if you want, if that seems to make things worse. 
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline Erin (redstarfalling)

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 188
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4506
  • Location: Montreal, Canada
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2009, 01:54:26 am »
I'm sort of on the same wavelength as Becky.  My experience with friends whose kids stopped napping young was that they just got wired.  They probably still needed the nap, but when they got OT, they just got really wired so they didn't *seem* tired, then stayed up late because they had caught that second wind or whatever and couldn't relax to sleep.  It became like a vicious cycle until months and months later, they finally settled down on their own (actually closer to a year later for one girl).

I'd aim for consistency every day.  If you're going for a nap, then do a nap, but do it every day.  If she doesn't sleep, then it's quiet time at that time - no playing out of bed, sort of thing. Earlier bedtime, with long wind downs and clear clear instructions about what is okay and what's not.  It's NOT okay to talk or play or get out of bed. It's bedtime, so we lie quietly and SLEEP.  Put stuffed animals to bed as part of the routine. 

Every morning, reinforce what's good even if only with her stuffed toys - "look Abi, Teddy was such a good bear last night, he didn't get out of bed at all - he went right to sleep and didn't talk or play.  Maybe he should get a straw for his juice this morning - what do you think? If you go to straight to sleep tonight like Teddy, would you like to use a straw tomorrow with your juice".  Or something like that.

Then when Abi has a good night, you talk to Teddy about HER.  Peer pressure can be a useful tool... :)
Erin
Mother to Megan and Samantha


Offline ~Karen~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 98
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 6234
  • Location: UK
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2009, 02:30:57 am »
Hi Paula - How's she getting on?  We've been doing wi/wo here and tonight I didn't have to go back in so fingers crossed he's got used to the idea.....for now......!!

Any chance you could go back to the cot or is that just taking a backwards step??  Amy was out of cot at 18 months.......Ethan will be more like 5, lol!

Offline * Paula *

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 426
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 14882
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2009, 11:38:26 am »
Becky / Erin, thanks for your input, it does make sense.  She generally does not do 6 hours of A time, she used to only do 5 - 5.5 hours and then do a nap.

Nursery put her down for a nap every day.  They aways do a wind down routine with them and then put them down on their mats to sleep.  Some days she sleeps and other days she will lay there but will not sleep at all.  She will lay there and read a book, and is quite happy.

She has cut all her one year molars as well as all 4 of her canines.  I have given her meds before bed and when she wakes in the night but does not seem to make any difference.

On the days that she does nap.  Whether it be for an hour or two hours, we have major bedtime issues i.e. getting her to bed, but on the days that she does not nap, she goes to bed like a dream, and will sleep for 12.5 - 13.5 hours.  Last night she went to bed at 6:20 (asleep by then), and woke up at 7:15, so that was nearly a 13 hour night.

I don't think that she is OT, I am just thinking she is just not ready to go to bed when she has a nap.  It seems like it gives her a second wind, and when she does eventually fall asleep she ends up having about 8 hours A times.

Karen, I do think that putting her back in a cot is just going to be taking a step back.  The reason I moved her to a bed was cause we were having sleeping issues and she cried everytime I put her in the cot.  When we moved her to a bed at 13 months old, she would go straight to sleep without any problems.
Thomas Michael - 12 July 2005
Abigail Louise - 23 October 2007

Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2009, 14:07:09 pm »
Dropping a nap at 20 months old is really really early, even if she did move to 1 nap at 10 months.  So I don't know that I'd give up on it quite yet.

So what time are  you putting her to bed on nap days? Can it just be an hour later? It's possible when you first put her down she's UT then she plays thru her sleep window and comes out OT and stays up much longer than she needs to.  If you move bedtime an hour later maybe that will hit her window closer and then you won't get as much playing? And then you can also keep a nap which helps her and you.  I just have to wonder if over time no nap is really going to devolve into a super OT LO.  Even if you could hold on to the nap another 4-6 months I think that would be good,you know?

On the TS board we get lots of posts of kids dropping nap for awhile only to pick it back up again.  Who knows why they do it! So even if you decide no nap is the way to go now she's young enough I'd keep my eyes open for another napping opportunity b/c it just might come around.
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline EloysH

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 102
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 5299
  • Eloise & 2 boys, from reflux to gut healing :)
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2009, 03:31:59 am »
hugs Paula, it's tricky business!   

On a day where she has a nap:   --- If she is not "wound up" before bedtime and nice and relaxed and not on second wind, but acutally  UT due to the nap, can you try a slightly later bedtime on those days???  Before the later bedtime I would firstly try and make her windown routine start earlier and be really really boring with no TV or vigorous playing of posisble and see if that helps.  otherwise maybe go for the later bedtime.

Offline rach

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 322
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 8817
  • Location: Coulsdon, Surrey
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2009, 06:18:13 am »
Also, what is her activity like before/after her nap on the days that she does nap?  Is she more active in the morning?  Just wondering if a walk in the afternoon after her nap might help at all - tire her little legs?  Can't hurt to try?
Rach xx

Offline * Paula *

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 426
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 14882
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2009, 08:39:14 am »
Thanks for the replies ladies.

Becky I completely know where you are coming from.  My DS dropped his nap at 2 and even to me that was way too early, but he would not sleep and on days that he would nap, he would just lay in bed singing to himself until 10/11pm.

Right this is how yesterday went:-

Wake up 7:15, bath, breakfast, snack, play with DS, running round the house and outside on the slide.
11:30 - sit down and have lunch, at the table for about 30 mins.
12:00 - Sitting reading books, on my lap nice and quiet.
12:30 asked DD - do you want to go for a nap?  She nods, we go upstairs.  Read another book, she lays down, I leave.
She gets up, I put her back in bed and close all the bedroom doors to make the hall dark.  I come back downstairs as DS is calling me.  I hear her get up walk round the hall and all goes quiet.

10 mins later I go up and check on her, she is fast asleep on the top step  :-\ I pick her up and put her to bed and leave.  Told DH only to let her nap for an hour, and went out with DS.

We came home just befor 1:45, and DH went to go to wake her up, but she was already awake and was standing at the top of the stairs.  So she had betwen 45mins - 1 hour nap.

We went to a birthday party and she ran around outside all afternoon.

We got home at 6:30 and had some nice quiet time to wind both DS and DD down.  She generally goes to bed around 7pm, but thought like you ladies said that she may be UT, so drew out the wind down and cuddles, it was quiet no one was talking and we were all just chilling.  Went upstairs, did teeth, story and put her to bed.  As soon as I left the room she was out the bed, and in the hall. I put her back to bed, and she was out again, she then started screaming mummy mummy mummy, and everytime I put her to bed she freaked.  I lay down next to her, but she would not lie down at first she was just trying to climb down.  I eventually got her to lay down, and was just shhing and stroking her.  I was not looking at her, I had my eyes closed and after about half an hour she was eventually asleep only to wake up at 5:30 his morning  :o  I have not had EW's like this in ages.  I tried to put her back to bed and she just started crying.
Thomas Michael - 12 July 2005
Abigail Louise - 23 October 2007

Offline EloysH

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 102
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 5299
  • Eloise & 2 boys, from reflux to gut healing :)
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2009, 09:04:34 am »
Paula sounds like you get are doing all the right things with window.  Maybe aim for a 7:30pm- 8pm bedtime on days where she has a nap? Sounds like she could have been UT or just fighting it for other reasons.. asserting will /testing etc. If you do a later bedtime it still gives her a 12.5 hour day on a 7am wake-up.    An maybe on no nap days go back to the earlier bedtime.   

As for the early waking, I would keep her up as close as possible to nap time without her becoming a mess/OT etc.  So that way you can keep the same old routine going.    That's what I do so we don't get stuck into EW's again due to early bedtime.

Offline * Paula *

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 426
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 14882
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2009, 09:07:18 am »
Thanks Eloise  :-*

That is what I aimed for yesterday, put her to bed by 8pm, and she still protested and woke so early.

I am going to aim for a nap at 12 today - how long do you think I should let her nap for?
Thomas Michael - 12 July 2005
Abigail Louise - 23 October 2007

Offline *Natasha*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 223
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7838
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2009, 09:16:18 am »
I say 45mins

Natasha proud Mum to:

My big princess Catherine 7/8/05
My little princess Mirelle 17/10/07

Offline EloysH

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 102
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 5299
  • Eloise & 2 boys, from reflux to gut healing :)
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Bedtime issues with nearly 20 month old
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2009, 09:18:21 am »
hmmmmm  this is going to be a game of trial and error isn't it?  Maybe persist with the later bedtime for a few days to see for the real effect ?

On the nap length that would be a guess, as I have not yet had to do that for Jarrah.  But if we are treating this as a case that she is not getting to sleep quickly at night because her nap his too long, then I would try 45 mins for a few days and see what happens.

If she starts getting OT due to the short nap and later bedtime then you can adjust accordingly.


I know it's against the recommendations at this age to have shorter naps but I have seen it happen with Jarrah of his own accord, he cuts naps and refuses them sometimes if I put him down too early. Also on a good day he does 7 hours A time without trouble.  I have seen the lower sleep requirements happen with my own eyes.  When teething and sick though the A times comes right down.