what am i aiming for??? 7.5 month old

[*Becky*]

ok - so he did fall asleep. Aagh! I am guessing he is UT. What do you guys think?

bx

[*Becky*]

Hi,
Sorry for all these updates!
So...there was me thinking he was UT and he woke after 30 mins. Just don't get it and don't know how to move forward. If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I am beginning to dread every lunchtime nap as the naps are just so short.
Thanks
Becky

[kayra]

Sorry about the horrid naps i really understand how you feel, you keep thinking it's going to get better and it's so upsetting when it doesn't
so how long was that A time by the time he actually fell asleep?
in the morning when he wakes up from the 1hr nap does he seem well rested or do you think that's an OT 1 hr? To be honest i'm not sure how to interpret my lo's 1hr naps, but i remember Liz saying that with her ds it's generally OT. If he seems generally happy  maybe it's UT and you can extend the first A time a bit, but if he seems to get cranky quickly maybe it is OT although the A time seems too short anyway.
If after a shortish am nap he's still doing a short pm nap and is generally irritable my guess is that he's OT from the beginning, so maybe try putting him down earlier in the morning?? It might be worth a try.

xxxx
k

[*Becky*]

ok thanks. He woke happy from the hour nap today so I am going to try 2.45 tomorrow. I ahve tried that and some days it gets a better nap, some days not but it cannot be worse than today. 2 hours sleep all day!

[*Liz*]

What A's are you using at the moment? How active is your lo now?

[*Becky*]

At the moment we do 2.5 for the first A time and then 3 for the second. Around 2.5-3 for the third and very short before bed as he is tired!
He was touchy and is now spirited. Very active although cannot crawl yet but so alert and interested in everything!
Independent sleeper so I find it v hard when it all goes wrong!
What do you think?
bx

[*Liz*]

My DS is very independent to sleep - so if it doesnt work there is nothing I can do - AP is not really in his spectrum. A blessing and a pain at the same time.

I think you might need to increase those A's a little. If the first A is giving a reliable long am nap, then fine, as lots of los do stick to very short A's first thing in the morning, but with any nap over 1.5 hrs I'm sure your lo will be able to do 3 hrs A, if not more, at 7.5 mths. The lying in the cot babbling implies that as they do that for so long they forget they should be sleeping and end up OT.

But if the am nap is still short the increase the A on that one too - if your lo is a bit touchy/ spirited for sleep then only increase at 10 mins at a time with very low key activities - like a walk round the garden or reading a book. But let him burn off some energy during the old A time.

I assume you only end up with a catnap when you get short naps?

HTH

[*Becky*]

Thanks Liz! Yes we used to get a great first nap. 1.5-2 hours but I am lucky if I get 1.15 at the moment. Today it was a llittle hard to judge exactly when he woke but I added 10 mins onto the A time so we shall see. He slept very well last night even with the wonky day so maybe he needs less day sleep than some.
Yes we always do a catnap. 20-30 mins on a good day and slightly longer on a bad although I have to do this in the car and he does sleep but not for long!
I should add that he has a cold at the moment so this could be throwing stuff out.
Will keep you posted.
Becky x

[*Becky*]

ok so today we kept him up for 2.40 rather than 2 and a half and he slept for 1.5 so an improvement. I have to say that this has happened before, we follow exactly the same the next day and it does not work but I will try the same tomorrow. Put him down after 3.05 for the next A time as he had not shown any tired signs but we both felt it was time and he thrashed about for 10 mins, cried a bit but has fallen asleep. I guess th length of the nap and how he wakes up will tell me whether OT or UT. He has big dark circles under his eyes at the mo which is worrying me. He has a bit of a cold but they were there before that so I am thinking he is generally OT but then he sleeps well at night. Hmmm. bx

[*Becky*]

so for the afternoon nap he slept for 1.10 so not bad. Woke up crying but usually does. He had a 20 min catnap after being up 3 hours. Were in the car and he fought it quite a bit and then for the first time in so long he fussed a bit before going to sleep. Maybe he is ready to drop the catnap? Feel very confused...
Becky x

[*Liz*]

Yes - he is very nearly ready to drop the catnap - it drops once their A's are 3 hrs or so with 2 good naps. Some los only like to sleep when they are REALLY tired and if your lo is like that the squeezing in catnaps on relatively short A's can be really tricky. Sometimes it is best to just offer slightly earier bedtime. I remember when my lo was at the same stage - even with AP he would not drop off until at least 2h 30 A which made it really hard.

Use the same A's again tomorrow and see what happens. 1h 30 naps are fine, 1h 10 are really hard to tell whether OT or UT. For my DS they are often OT - but only in the sense that I should have put him down 5 mins earlier.

If your lo is sleeping well at night, and has had 2 long naps today, he can't be THAT OT. He might be a bit, but not REALLY, iyswim? There is a difference between the odd OT nap, and true OT.

Don't be confused - it is just the 3-2 nap transition and the dropping of any nap will be a little bumpy.

I also believe that when you are extending A's you will always lose the odd nap to OT. Now that doesn't alway mean your are doing the wrong thing, it just means you need to go gentle.

Does he give you many tired cues these days?

I found once we had completed the 3-2 transition we had a good 3 months of relatively easy napping  so hang in there. Now J has started the 2-1 transition, so we are at it again  .

Today was a GOOD day!

Hope you both get a good nights sleep and let us know how tomorrow goes  I'm always online a bit more in the week!

[*Becky*]

thanks Liz - I rally appreciate your help. I am going to try and do the same tomorrow and see. If we get a good second nap I may just forget the catnap as it seemed to create more problems today but I need to get to around 3pm to do that really as I don't want him to go to bed earlier than 6pm. There is so much going on at the moment. Teeth, rolling over, cold, dropping catnap etc etc.
His tired signs are hit and miss. He rubbed his eyes after 3 hours A time today so I took him to bed but then he thrashed around and fought the sleep so maybe I need to wait for a yawn. I wish I had the courage to keep him up for longer but I am scared of OT as, like you AP is not happening for us and he does look tired. He is fighting naps which tells me he probably needs more A times, particularly as they are not very long for his age.
Becky x

[*Liz*]

For so long I watched J like a hawk, and as soon as I saw a yawn or an eye rub I carted him off to bed! And eventually I realised that J is one of those babies who gives his cues before his window shuts. He also gives cues at his 'usual' nap time due to his body clock, so to extend I do have to ignore him, do some low key A and get 15 mins or so beyong the first tired sings for a good nap.

Babies are all so different with this work of thing though, so it really is a matter of knowing how your lo works!!

I'm pretty sure we need to extend too - but if we go too quickly we will risk OT. Aim for similar tomorro, but if he is not seeming tired the do just go an extra 5-10 mins or so.

I know the fear of OT - but if you panic too much about it you will end up actually inhibiting sleep in a way as putting them down too early will lead to short naps, and ultimately OT anyway  .

At least if he sleeps well at night then you get a clean slate very day 

[*Becky*]

yes you are so right. I worry about keeping him up but then he is OT by the end of the day anyway. Well today we started wind down after 2.35 and he was in bed after 2.40 but fussed for 5 mins before falling alseep. I think tomorrow I will try keeping him up another 5-10 mins as he seems to be fighting sleep at the moment. I wish he was not so fussy in general. I cannot even eat breakfast until he is in bed as he just fusses/cries and it really gets me down. Hey ho. Will let you know how today goes.
Becky

[*Liz*]

Fussing for 5 mins or so is really not that bad  . J almost always has a little wiggle and fuss about. I often wait upstairs outside the room until I am sure he is settling down, then wait for him to fall asleep, then do all my noisy jobs while he is deeply asleep so I can sit quietly through the 30-45min transition bit  . The things we end up doing!!

You are doing the right thing by letting him be. Soon he will be crawling all over the cot, so the more you let him work it through himself now the easier it will be in 6 weeks time. I heard my DS fussing this morning at 6.30am - went in and he had just sat up! No going back to sleep for us today  .

Fingers crossed for a good nap