Calling the mum who's child had the stomach virus in the UK!!!

[* Paula *]

Hi Carrie,

How old is your lo?  How long are her naps?

[Adaias mom]

Hi Girls,

Thought i would give an update. Adaia did brills last night! She went to bed no problem at 8, woke twice just for her dummy until 9.30 then i did the df at 10, put her back down without the dummy and she slept til 4.10  Then she wolfed down 4oz and went back to sleep until 6.45! I then got her up as she seemed very awake, but she wasn't ready i think as 20 mins later she was ratty, didn't want feed, so i put her back down and she went straight to sleep. And still in bed now.

She fed loads better yesterday, had a total 29oz incl night feed, so loads!

She is also going down lovely without the swaddle now, she is in a lightweight sleeping bag with just a long sleeved vest and it seems to be doing the trick. I was going to think about weaning the dummy after a terrible night the night before when there was ALOT of replugging, but she showed that she can sleep without it, as she didn't have the dummy from 9.30 til when i put her down just before, so she can sleep without it.

Lets see how today goes, but hopefully things are going to carry on getting better now. One thing is for sure, i won't run out of formula...I have 14 tins!!!

Hope all is going well with your lo's

xxx 

[* Paula *]

Fantastic news.  I am so pleased that things are going so well 

Keep us posted.  Sounds like she is doing so well without the swaddle too.

[cazzieclarity]

Hi Paula.
My LO is just 6mths. Naps are currently all over the place as we've had two lots of illness in just a few wks and we've also had to get rid of the swaddle. I did also start to get rid of the dummy but since she's been unswaddled she seems to have mastered hand eye coordination so it's no longer an issue for us.

The general tendancy for naps is to have 45mins about 2.5hrs after she wakes (she wakes at the crack of dawn despite having blackout curtains, somtimes as early as 4.30am and she is HAPPY!) Then she will have another 45mins in the morning about 2-2.5hrs after she wakes from the last one, then the next A time may be a little shorter and she will then have a long nap of 1.5 - 2hrs. She may then have a short catnap in the afternoon depending on timings. She goes down easily without fuss for both naps and bedtime. I act on the first or second yawn not on eye rubbing as I've learnt she does this when bored.

I've stopped trying to extend naps to be honest because she is more than happy to take one long nap per day without any interference from me, so I figured if she needs it, she'll sleep. I am thinking that she might be overall getting abit too much daytime sleep - I posted our easy about 1mth ago prior to the illness when the early wakings started and the mods suggested she needs more A time as she is always happy when she wakes - at that time she was having the textbook 2 x 1.5hrs + catnap.

So this morning I let her have her first nap in our bed (naughty I know but it's brighter in our room and she doesn't have her white noise) it worked cause she only had 20mins. So far today looks like this

Woke 3.50am (after 9hrs sleep) she slept in a growbag last night due to the heat but she never sleeps well in it. She woke unhappy so I swaddled her and she slept til 5am.
Nap 20.mins 7.30- 7.50
Nap 9.45 - 10.30
She is now currently napping 12.45 - looks like it will be a 2hr nap.

If anyone has any ideas about how to tackle these early wakings I'd much appreciate it!
Carrie

[* Paula *]

Im' thinking that the EW's are probably due to your lo not having enough A time / Sleep during the day.

As they get older their tired cues do start to change, so the eye rubbing could also be out of boredom.  Have you tried changing the scenery when she starts rubbing her eyes and increasing her A time by 15 mins and see how she does?

[cazzieclarity]

Hi Paula,
I have started to change the scenery with her particularly if she is just rubbing her eyes, although I do still act on the first yawn but perhaps I shouldn't? She is a very happy and sociable child who is in to everything so it is realy easy for me to distract her and keep her entertained without her getting too cranky - I have known her go 5hrs A time before when we've been out for the day but I thought it was too much...although that particular day she did sleep for 1.5hrs as soon as we got home. I'm just at such a loss as to what to do with her.

I think only letting her have 20min yesterday morning might have helped. I also only let her have a 10min afternoon catnap (unavoidable actually as she fell asleep in the car) This resulted in a still stupidly early morning wake up this morning of 3.40am, but she was tired and cranky so i just fully swaddled her and she went back to sleep until 5am. I think she may have then fallen back to sleep til 5.30, I went in and fed her and put her back down to crumble til 6am. Should mention, she is always in bed by 7pm.

I am wondering if I should just follow the clock instead of her cues and aim for 2 good naps per day...is this right ? Only thing is, these early wakings throw our whole day out of sinc so I'm not sure what time to try and aim the first nap for? I've tried counting A time from when she gets up at 6am rather than when she wakes up but she is showing sleepy cues from 2hrs after she wakes up!

Aaahhh, it's such a nightmare. Last night I actually went out for the first time in ages with my husband. I was still in bed by 10.30 but she was coughing at 11.30 and woke her self up so I went in to give her medicine. It was 12 before I got to sleep and then my day started at 3.40am.....I don't know how much longer I can cope with these EW's......it's not like I want much.... I think I could even cope with 5.30am but 3.40am is the middle of the bloody night even if the sun is up and the birds are singing!!! sorry, tired rant now over. If you have any suggestions of when the ideal nap times should be for this age I would be so grateful.

At 5mths tho when we had the textbook 2 x 1.5hr and a catnap we had happy EW's so I'm thinking perhaps she needs more A time than textbook?

Thankyou for offering your help.

Carrie

[* Paula *]

Hugs Carrie,

I am so sorry you are having such a rough time.  We had an EW too, but not as early as yours ours was 4:15 and my dear toddler refused to go back to bed and then threw a tantrum cause I would not let her lay on top of me 

I really do think that your lo is ready to increase her A time.  My DD has aways been on the high end of A time and I think by 6months we were on 3 hours A time.

I would definiely try and increase the A time in the AM to say 2.5 hours and in the PM if you get a good nap to 2.75 hours.

What I would do if we had an EW waking and DD was happy in the cot, I would leave her and only count the A time from the time we got up.  This helped us extend he A time slightly and also stop her first nap becoming an extension of her night time sleep.

[cazzieclarity]

Hi Paula,
Thanks for the support, I feel like it's abit of a viscious cycle cause I know I have to increase A but we are all so tired because of the EW's that the whole day is out of sinc. I was so tired this morning (and DH was in bed with a hangover...grrrr!) I took lo downstairs to find the dog had pooed all over the floor and then had to go for a very early dog walk with her in the carrier to keep her calm enough so that I could extend A time. It's just so shattering!

Can I just check something. This morning she woke at 5am (might have gone back to sleep til 5.30...not sure) I then got her up at 6am. I counted 2.5hrs from there to get me to 8.30 nap time. She only napped for 30mins...OT. But I think that might be my fault for letting her go in her door bouncer just before nap time....it always seems to make the jolts worse. Does that seem right A time? Also, how late in the afternoon would you let your LO sleep until? She is currently napping and it will probably be 2hrs ...that will take us to nearly 4pm.....is this too late?

Thanks again for your help.
Carrie

[Adaias mom]

Hugs Carrie,

Hope your days and EW improve soon.

Well we have just gone from one problem to the next! Adaia has now stopped eating due to constipation!!! I have put her on lactulose (on saturday) still no joy though, but am hoping for a poo today. I have been giving her about 5ml. Yesterday i put it in 3oz of water and she drank it, and today i just put it in an oz of milk which she took. I am hoping she has a poo soon, so she can get on with her eating again! This has been going on for weeks now! I have had one good night since she was 9 weeks old! Its now 14weeks!

Also Paula did your LO still get a bit of spit up on Enfamil. Adaia does. Also she is still getting the hiccups about 3 times a day, even though they aren't wet sounding, and she is still a bit windy, but doesn't seem in as much discomfort. Its just so hard to judge anything, as now i don't know if she isn't eating due to constipation, or if she is still uncomfortable. Plus with the heat it just threw everything off.

I so haven't got any routine what so ever. The only thing i do the same is bloody bath her at 5.30. Last night she didn't go to bed til 9.30!!! This was because i tried to keep her up longer in the morning to try and get a good nap, kept her up for 1.5hrs and she ended up OT, so got about an hours sleep out of her all day! I just don't know what to do now.

Even my feeding times aren't the same, as i can't push her to go 4 hours when she only had 2oz on the last feed, but then she will only take bloody 3 - 4oz even though she is crying for food! I really wanted to start 4 hour feeding starting at 7 this morning, but because she had such a bad night i just couldn't bring myself to wake her so she didn't get up til 8! So off again. What the hell do i do I keep saying to myself, once this is better we'll get back on track, but its always something causing us not to get back on track!

Sorry for the long post!

[*Liz*]

You are right though honey - you need to get her medically well before you will be able to get her back on track.

With the lactulose - I just syringe it directly into the back corner of his cheek. That way you wouldn't be filling her tummy with lots of fluid and preventing her taking her milk. You can get mediciation syringes from the chemists - mine usually gives me them for free. Otherwise the ones you get in baby neurofen are quite good. Its also sooooooo sticky that it might not be going through the bottle teat and is actually just in the dregs left at the bottom of the bottle.

Being constipated definately affects J's eating as well. And the heat really threw us in a loop as well.

Feed refusal, hiccups, spit up and porr sleep are still signs of poorly controlled reflux. I think I would be tempted to get my pahrmacist to see whether you can give gaviscon in enfamil or not, and if you can't then the pharmcist can tell your (clearly very difficult) doctor to be more sensible and give you some Zantac to try instead. That is a few drops syringed into the mouth. You can't mix it with the milk as it tastes very minty and would make the milk taste just awful.

So....... in answer to what the hell do you do....... you do exactly what you are doing. You are doing a great job is very difficult circumstances. 

Carrie - so sorry for that EW - 3.40am is just DREADFUL. I feel pretty bad with my 5.30am wake up calls.

[Adaias mom]

Well have managed to get her to 4 hours for this feed, as she took 3.5oz this morning. Well she is due in 15mins, and is asleep, so am presuming she'll go the duration. Hopefully she'll take a better feed.

I will get some syringes later, but i gave her another 2.5ml in some water earlier, and it mixes with the water, and just makes it mega sweet, so its not left at the bottom so she is getting it. Just REALLY hope she has a poo today!

The poor little mite couldn't get it all out on Thursday, and only managed to get the 'log' out with my help yesterday!!! She has always gone 3 - 4 days between poo's since she has been on formula, and i have been assured its normal by the doc, but she is overdue now, and the amount of sugared water and lactulose she has had, i thought she would be pooing everywhere! Might find she does later! If she doesn't poo today i'm going back the docs tomorrow.

I can't wait to get her onto solids as i will start with pears and hopefully the fruit and veg will help the pooing situation! No baby rice for us though! I don't think i'm ever going to get to the stage where she is downing 8 - 9 oz bottles and not being satisfied, so will just start weaning when its safe to do so.

God isn't it all so bloody hard! I wish my little love could talk so she could tell me whats up.

[*Liz*]

Reflux babies are often very constipated - slow at the top and at the bottom!!

J gets very constipated, and no amount of pears helps either  . The only problem with lactulose is it does need a reasonable amount of fluid in the diet to help it work.

I would just keep giving her 2.5ml twice a day until it shifts. I do use 5ml twice a day for J but he is a bit older and bigger.

[* Paula *]

Huge hugs ladies.

Carrie, yes the door bouncer could definitely have over stimulated her.  If you are extending A time it is always best to try and do it quietly so that nyour lo does not get too OS.

Sorry about the poop situation.  How often are you giving the lacutlose?  Did they say you could give it twice a day?  I would definitely try and give it staight from the syringe to see if you can get it into your lo.

I agree that the reflux may not be 100% under control, although until you have the constipation situation sorted, you are not going to know.  My DD would still get hiccups but not as often as 3 times a day.  If she did spit up, it would only be small amounts.

[Adaias mom]

Well i pushed her to 4 hours earlier and she only took 2.5oz arghhhh. She also had a poo, prior to this so god knows. But then i fed her 3.5hrs later as she was crying for food and took 4.5oz! I did try her with a teat for thicker liquids, so she took it VERY quickly, but it was to fast for her as the fast flow upset her. But i have now put a pin hole in one of the size 3 teats and see how that goes.

Well she has only spit up tiny amounts today and has had no wind or hiccups issues! This is so hit and miss. I am still not sure if the lactulose has given her a bit of nausea or what, so i don't know. I really wish i could go the docs and ask without being fobbed off!

I spoke to the Health Visitor again today, and she has advised me to keep a food diary for her, so i can go the docs armed with that, so i'm gonna write everything down as of tom. That is eat, how much, time, if she spits up, hiccups etc etc. I'll do this for a few days and if she hasn't improved, i'll go to the docs and ask to see a pediatrician.

Oh i also got a syringe so will give the lactulose tom out of that. Have given her some twice today, and even though her poo had some hard bits, the rest was runny so am not going to give her any more until tomorrow now. I know how it feels to have that 'got the runs feeling' and its not nice, so don't want her to have that!

She has napped quite a bit today,none longer than 45mins, but even though it was hard to get her down now, i think i may be getting off the OT train....will find out tonight.

[Adaias mom]

Oh i forgot to add, that i got her weighed today and even though she isn't eating well, she has put 10oz on in 2 weeks! Now weighs 13lb 4, so its obviously not doing her any harm.

Am i fretting over something that may not be a massive problem, even though no way can 3 - 4oz per feed for a 13lb babe be enough! Plus if she really was ok, surely she would sleep!!!