Tossing and turning for hours at night without sleeping - please help....

[babybarr]

Well - kinda wanted to bump this in case anyone else had any thoughts but last night we had world record.... 4 HOURS AWAKE!  I'm at my wits end.  We've now done 3weeks of not going in to him unless he cries, if it was behavioural would it not have stopped.  I can't take anymore   

I don't know what to do now.

[LizzieN]

Sweetie that is terrible!!!! 4 hours.....ridiculous!!

Is hubby still going in to him rather than you?

Hugs my friend, I so hope someone looks over this who can actually be helpful (as opposed to me)...
lots of love
Lizzie

[LizzieN]

Sweetie is it possible that Oliver has an intolerance which is causing him tummy pain?  Have you retried gripe water or something like that?  Sorry can't remember right now if he has intolerance issues...I'm just wondering if he has a really REALLY gassy tummy which is causing the tossing and turning?

xx more hugs

[tired56]

Hi again Laura.  Sorry to hear that you're still having trouble with DS, even after the sleep clinic.  So I'm assuming that they said the lengthy NWs are behavioural?  My DS still does it too and he is now 26 months!!  I have had 4 hour NWs with him in the past, but v rare.  I think they have only happened a few times and the last one was a few months ago.  Mostly his NWs are 60-90 mins but he is getting better.  Some weeks he doesn't do it at all and then other times he does it once or twice a week, but this is heaps better as he used to do it 3-4 times a week!  I went to a paediatrician about it and she couldn't give me an answer as to why he does it and also said he is growing and developing fine so it isn't a problem, and he isn't autistic.  My DD used to do it too, but I think she only ever did 4 hour NWs twice.  She will still sometimes be awake for up to 60mins in the night and she has just turned 4 and I'm sure it's b/c she won't always have a nap and really needs to most days so she gets OT.  But again this is better than she used to be as she used to be awake regularly at 18 mths for about 2 hrs.  Then she suddenly started sleeping 2hr naps and 10hrs in the night regularly when she was 22 mths.  But DS, I just CAN'T get him on a routine.  I think his problem is mostly OT, but sometimes is teething or dreams.  He overtires v easily and will invariably have a short nap b/c of this.  Even if he has a long nap when he is a bit OT he will wake grumpy and then not always sleep well that night.  It's as though his nap has to be exactly right or you've had it, and it's really difficult to get it right with him.

I have read that food intolerances can cause insomnia as they can produce histamine which can hinder sleep, so I might have another go at cutting out some foods again and see what happens.  But apart from that, I have exhausted every other avenue.  My LOs do not cry the whole time they are awake, they are not in discomfort and it is definitely not behavioural.  I have rung various sleep clinics and they have either said they are playing and we should go in to them to tell them to sleep, but they still don't sleep, or they are still learning to STTN, or they are overstimulated.  So I don't think anyone really knows.  There is obviously a big market here for a new type of sleep book, so when we get the answer we can write one and be rich!!!!  But seriously, wouldn't it be lovely if they were only awake for a few mins in the night, nevermind STTN!! 

[babybarr]

Thanks girls. 

Yes they said NWs were behavioural!  They aren't!  I know sometimes the OT monster can cause them but TBH we have issues even when he naps well and so I know this isn't to blame, although of course he's going to OT if he spends hours awake at night 

There was a programme on TV last night (I recorded it - it was on at 9pm, which is far too late!) about britains youngest sleep walker, I also read an article in the paper about her and she has insomnia.  Her episodes at night where they thought she was sleep walking she is actually awake and after 2yrs her parents finally got a diagnosis of insomnia.  I'm convinced this is the case now with DS.  It's just getting someone to listen.  I mean the insomnia may be caused by OT BUT what has been causing all thr frequent NWs before given he used to STTN every night from 10wks old (no DF either!)

I feel lost. 

[tired56]

OMG!!  I'm sure my two suffer with insomnia too!  I cannot explain what else it is!  My DS has never STTN much until recently, but we still get him awake in the night sometimes, even when he has napped well.  My DD STTN from 12 weeks and then started waking again at about 9 mths.  It got really bad with her though (by really bad I mean the lengthy wakings of at least 60mins) from about 13 mths to 22mths.  Then she mostly STTN again until she started fighting the nap at 3 yrs!!  So it could still be OT with your DS as I did read somewhere that some babies who have learnt to STTN start waking again at around 9mths, due to developmental changes.  Think I read it in Save Our Sleep by Kizzie Hall, but not entirely sure as have read soooooo many sleep books!!!  Fingers crossed it is just a waiting game with your DS too, and he is still transitioning and taking aaaaages to do it like my LOs.  Sorry, I really don't have many other ideas, the OT monster seems to be the only real answer for me.  I sometimes wonder if there is another problem with my kids but I have read so much and asked so many professionals for help and most just say it is behavioural.  I really believe it is a type of insomnia, what was the advice for the parents with the DD with insomnia? 

[babybarr]

Tired 56 - When I've watched the programme I'll let you know!  It did start around 10months with Oliver, I think it's now exaggerated by OT but what was causing this in the first place IYSWIM?  The thing is last week he was def OT.  We caught him up and he had one great night, then it started all over again.  So now he's probably OT again.  Even when he's caught up because he can't stay asleep properly he gets OT again.  Interestingly though the sleep clinic didn't even suggest he was OT.  TBH it was a complete waste of time.  Where do you live?

Lizzie - He has cow's milk intolerance and although I'd planned to introduce cow's milk soon I haven't because his sleep is so bad.  I have tried cutting out wheat type things but then it doesn't leave much!

[LizzieN]

Hey sweetie,
Yeah I thought I remembered that Oliver had MPI as well as mild reflux and his other blood condition!!  I really do feel for you!

Do you get the impression that he is waking in pain?  You say that he often doesn't cry, just tosses and turns?  Probably suggests it isn't pain doesn't it?!  How is he eating now, could he be waking from some hunger?

I am very surprised that the sleep clinic wouldn't have even mentioned that he was over tired, I don't see how he couldn't be...you certainly are you poor darling!! 

Have you made an appointment with your GP yet?

I just had a thought too, if Oliver is still immunocompromised could he have candidia?  This often happens when the immune system isn't working great (just like thrush turns up) and can cause massive sleep disturbance, I think you can do a blood test for this...I only ask because I have recently heard of two people I know who have been diagnosed with this condition, it's closely linked to irritable bowel syndrome.  A nautropath would probably be the person to ask about this....

Not trying to worry you with more "possible diagnoses"....

My course of action would be, make your docs appointment asap...if they are no help maybe head to an alternative person (naturopath, chinese med specialist etc) and get a different perspective.  I really don't think that this could be "behavioural", I'm sure you would be seeing an improvement by now if you have drastically changed how you are responding to his NWs, but HEY WHAT THE HELL WOULD I KNOW!!!  Hugs to you lovely, I know where you are at
xxLizzie