Tossing and turning for hours at night without sleeping - please help....

[babybarr]

Hi Lizzie

DS - Oliver - produces neutrophils (the white blood cell used to fight infection) but also produces antibodies to kill them off!!  So consequently his cell count should be 1 or over and it's 0.1.  This means as soon as he gets the slightest sign of infection i.e. temperature he goes into hopsital where they want to give him IV antibiotics but can never get a cannula in so very often he has injected antibiotics - very strong and give him very bad diarrhoea.  He is on a once daily antibiotic so not too bad.  He's cowmilk intolerant too so I think probiotics are probably out unfortunately.

Oliver did the whole go to bed then chuck last night too!  He used to be really bad but his reflux is easing although when he's ill or teething it seems to be worse. 

I know what you mean about the fine line between OT and UT....

With regard to the ibuprofen I've started to give it with a meal - as an adult that's what you're supposed to do so I figured that'd be the same???  I barely give Oliver meds during the day either, just at bed when he really seems to struggle.

I just can't believe this has been going on for weeks now with little improvement, I'm starting to lose the plot here.

Hugs right back to you, do you only have Dyllan or more children?

Laura xx

[LizzieN]

Hey Laura,

Hang in there lovely, one day Oliver will get up and then suddenly you will think, WOW he's back!!! Those teeth are just so hard, I think especially when there are other things going on too.  I really do find that I can tell at least a month before the teeth show up that he isn't himself, sometimes it's longer.  I remember thinking I was going completely insane when he was cutting his front teeth....wondered why he was so cranky, why things were so hard, why I was getting sick....then I saw them descending!!

Geeze it must be so hard to have to take him in for antibiotic shots all the time, is this going to be something for life or do they think it will ease up as the immune system matures?  I hope that it gets better lovely.  Bummer about the probiotics, but sounds like it probably wouldn't make a huge difference anyway...Sounds like you have it under control, but I feel for you, it must be hard!!

I have a step daughter, Lauren also.  She is with us on the weekends (normally every second one) and she is just wonderful.  6 years old and gorgeous...kind hearted, loves Dyllan.  We are very very lucky xx

Funny that you were having a rough night too.  Dyllan hasn't really chucked much since 6 months so this vomiting is unusual...we think it may have something to do with the new formula, but then we need to stay on it for a bit to see if it helps too...

Better run, lots of hugs, keep chatting
Lizzie
xx

[babybarr]

Just a quickie as things going badly

I thought I'd see what happens if I didn't give meds at bedtime tonight ....BIG mistake!  He went down fine but woke kinda whinging at 8.30pm - gave him cuddle and then the tossing and turning started - like we've been having in the middle of the night - gave meds at 8.45 but 30mins later he hasn't settled.  I think this though has confirmed what I have thought and that is the tossing and turning is related to discomfort - would you agree?

I thin he could do one nap he if was sleeping well at night - he used to do 11.5hrs pretty much.  The thing is I've been limiting the am nap to 45mins but he still will usually only take a 1 - 1.25hr pm nap.  I just can't win!

How's Dyllan been today - what did you decide about his new milk?  I think Oliver was sick because I gave him baked beans for dinner!  I don't think tomato agrees with him that much! 

Sounds like your step daughter is a very lovely little girl.

I didn't think teeth could really cause all this???

Thanks for your replies it's nice to "chat" to someone who knows how I feel.

Laura  xxx

[LizzieN]

Hey Laura,

I have spent a LOT of time convincing my DH that teeth can cause SO many issues, he always freaks out when we are in the middle of another dreadful teething patch thinking that there is something really really wrong with Dyllan.  I guess the way I reassure him is just to say that if there was something really wrong it would be causing problems ALL the time, not just at night time and a bit of grumbling during the day...Honestly though, when the teething begins I start wondering if I'm going insane and I'm a grumpy horrible person and the worst mum in the world....then I see the teeth coming, they cut and we have our lovely little man back....I think when there are other medical complications teething can really be a challenge for you all.  I sort of feel that our baby has tummy related issues, teething mucks his tummy up so those issues get much more pronounced...may be I'm wrong, but we just muddle through as best we can!!

One thing I though with the new milk was it never seems to cause him probs in the morning...then the other night when I was feeding him I realised I was loosening the top off the bottle a LONG way, a habit from when we were using thickened formula (to help him get it down)...I  think I may have been causing huge pockets of wind in his tummy by doing this.  We haven't had any vomiting the last couple of nights, so fingers crossed that was the problem.  Also I'm trying to bring his dinner forwards so it's not as much food all one after the other

Ahh sweetie, it's lovely talking to you too!!!  Sometimes it's great to be able to chat to someone who hasn't had a "perfect" run with their bub....Some days I just feel so useless when I can't help our little man and then I get crabby, which is the WORST thing I can do (subjective parenting...) but it is hard sometimes and I'm not even dealing with all the extra stuff that you guys are coping with.  I think you are doing an amazing job!!

I would keep up the pain meds if they are helping, obviously the other night didn't work well without so sounds like they are helping!  Have you looked into any of the nautropathic/homeopathic teething things too?

Big Hugs to you all
Lizzie

[babybarr]

I know what you mean about being crabby - I get SOOOO moody with no sleep I think DH is about ready to throw me out!!

His 8th tooth still hasn't appeared yet which is irritating, his 7th one arrived about 3/4weeks ago and we had this tossing and turning probably for about 2/3 weeks before - I lose track!

Last night it was so hot here - I assume you're not uk based given the time you post?

The meds do seem to be helping I just feel bad dosing what seems to be every night and often once in the night too.

I think Oliver also has "tummy" issues.  He didn't start solids properly till he was 8mths because he couldn't handle them, and now he just seems to be very sensitive to what I give him.  I often wonder if it's tummy ache at night which keeps him awake - something you probably wonder too.

Most of the homeopathic stuff has lactose in which given we're not sure if he's lactose intolerant I don't want to risk - also DH spent a lot of money on homeopathy for himself with no success whatsoever - so am a bit cynical about the whole thing!

How was last night for you guys?

L xx

[becky1969]

L -- the tummy ache thing is a distinct possibility.  I had a guy who couldn't eat a lot of foods without it causing a tummy ache.  Now that he's 3 we know that he's allergic to wheat and eggwhites, and has always had gas problems so veggies would cause him incredible pain as a baby.

If I were you, I'd cut out: wheat, dairy, and give him only non-gassy veggies.  For us, even apples and pears caused trouble b/c they loosen stool and create gas.  See if that helps a bit!  We couldn't do any cereals as they made his tummy hurt so much.  Right now he's on a gluten free diet.

[lilflav]

Hello, I just wanted to give an fyi about the probiotics- you can get just probiotics in a bottle & mix them w/ other food, you don't just have to get them from yogurt (which many lactose intolerant people can tolerate because it is already partially digested).  In fact it is better because you get a stronger dose of probiotics.  It may help w/ his tummy issues since he is constantly on antibiotics.

Also, I just wanted to tell you we are in the same boat as you.  Julissa just had 4 teeth pop out over the past month.  She is still fighting going to sleep in the night time.  The other night it took her 2 hrs, and some nights she has nws that last 1.5 hrs or so.  She is so ot at this point which makes things worse.  She acts fine during the day and only shows signs during the night.

[LizzieN]

Dyllan cries in the night and cries and refluxes then farts a few times and can re-settle.  From what I can tell gassiness and reflux go hand in hand, but I keep trying to tell Dyllan that he is a boy he's supposed to take pride in farting LOL!!!

No we aren't in the UK, we are in Australia so it's very cold here at the moment!!!  Finally had some rain which is great, had been a very dry winter till now!!  (bad for getting washing dry though...I know you can sympathise!!)

We are off dairy and soy at present trying to determine if our LO has MSPI...since his reflux is going on for so so long.  I hope that it is this as we can definately deal with it.  Our Ped listened to LOs tummy last appointment and commented that "he had a lot going on down there" so I have my fingers crossed that this will help heaps!!

I am also a little unsure about homeopathy, although I used to get sick a LOT and a naturopath really sorted me out (I get sick like a normal person now, I even get over one before the next one starts which is refreshing...although this month has been different)...I think it depends a lot on your naturopath and the nature of the problem..

Last night was pretty rough, massive chuck before bed (all the formula came up) but I'm sure it was from over feeding last night because we ate a bit late...I was disorganised.  Knew I shouldn't have given him the bottle too!  Hopefully tonight's ok.

How are you going?  If your DH gets frustrated with you put him on and I'll sort him out LOL....You are doing great sweetie, it's just hard.  Hard with a little one when they don't have problems, even harder if they do!

Huge hugs to you
xxoo

[babybarr]

Lilflav - thanks for the tips about probiotics I'll look into that, please feel free to join in with Lizzie and I in our rants about long NWs!! Julissa sounds like Oliver - an uncomfortable owl - how I wish it was during the day.

Becky, he doesn't have dairy already, I may lay of the wheat and see what happens...

Lizzie - DH ok really he has to be to put up with my grumpiness!!  Sorry formula not going great we tried nutramigen and that just made Oliver poorly!  He's still on soy which seems to be the best.  Oliver farts loads too!  He's had really loose stools too - maybe that teeth influenced?  You must be doing a great job with Dyllan if you can keep encouraging me.

Hugs to you all.

Laura xx

[LizzieN]

Ah Laura,
Trust me I have my days, sometimes I turn into a grumpy nasty shouting monster....it's dreadful!!  Most of the time though I'm ok these days, I guess it's easier than it was, we have more answers than we did, we do have Dyllan on meds which have helped etc....Also our Little man is just delightful, so bright and lovely

I know what you mean about your DH, mine often comments that I'm not as happy as I used to be, but then I have never in my life been more sleep deprived for such a long time (and I used to shift work....did up until 2 weeks before Dyllan was due!!)...Luckily he understands most of the time and deals with the grumps when he has to...bless him!!

Dyllan does a lot more BMs and they can be runnier around teething...often burn his skin too, so figure his tummy is a bit of a mess around teething which often seems never ending tbh!!!

We haven't been advised to go off wheat yet, off dairy and soy for two weeks now, so fingers crossed things start getting easier.  Was up with Dyllan 3 or 4 times last night, easy to re-settle after a few minutes of back rubs, but still tiring for me!!  This morning my DH said, gee he has had a rough night hasn't he??? My response was (snap) how would you know?....oops, very unfair comment!!

Hope you had a good night, great big hugs!  Oh btw there are some great recipes on the MSPI Recipe thread if you are interested....I've tried a few now and they are yummmmm...I was worried that I would struggle without the dairy, but going ok so far

Big hugs to you and Oliver
Lizzie

[babybarr]

Oliver was back to doing his wide awake routine for an hr + last night.  This is how it started before the tossing and turning hence trying the one nap thing...  I'm in a vicious circle, he can't do one nap if he has a bad night but then several days on a 45min am nap and 1.25hr ish pm nap he's spending time awake in the night.  I just feel like I can't win and the last few days he's been napping very badly as well which really isn't helping.

I'll look up those recipes - thanks for the tip.

Any hints to keep cool in the hot weather - given where you live!  Bare in mind though we don't have air con and can't afford to get it!!

Hugs to you all too.
L xx

[LizzieN]

Hmm we always have a fan on in our LOs room, that helps quite a lot.  You can also put a fan infront of a container of water so the fan blows across the water (kind of works like an evaporative air conditioner)....obviously can't do this while LO is up and need to be sure the power cords are no where near the water.

A cool bath or shower just before bed will help to cool your LO down before bed which may help...When we had really really hot days I stripped our LO down and put cold face washers on his head, fruit juice icy poles or ice blocks.  Lots of water games in the bath or playing in a bucket of water on the lino floor.

We have a heat pump/air con unit thankfully (was a wedding present everyone chipped in for) which we did have to turn on for a couple of days, bliss...My only other piece of advice is put Oliver in his pram and go to a shopping mall in the air conditioning during the hottest part of the day.  If he doesn't sleep at least you know he is cool!!!

Hugs to you lovely, it is hard in hot weather, at least in the cold you can rug them up!!! Our little man never sleeps well when it's too hot, so I can sympathise with you
xx Lizzie

[babybarr]

Hi Lizzie - if you're online what time is it....something ridiculous?!

He was awful last night but it was SO hot (well for Britain anyway!)

I'm really starting to think all this can it really just be teeth given I've yet to see any evidence of any new ones etc...I'm really getting disheartened at the moment and just can't believe this has been going on so long - now he's taking a crappy nap

How's things with you?  Any less NWs?

[LizzieN]

Hey lovely,

Look if you are worried beautiful, take him to the doctor for a check up.  Make sure those ears are clear and that his throat isn't inflamed , no underlying chest issues etc.  Just explain that he has been off colour for a while now and you just want him checked out!!

In my experience with a refluxy bub, the teething is really really really really hard and long winded.  I was saying to DH for over a month that he MUST be teething when his front teeth were coming, either that of I was turning into an insane, grumpy b**...thanfully it turned out to be teeth LOL!! (and sometimes I am an insane grumpy b**)

If you haven't seen any coming, have a good look for the bottom ones, they always surprise me, although I know he is teething, I rarely see them coming (the little ones at the front) and they seem to give him hell for some reason!

Last night I was up with Dyllan three or four times, really can't remember.  Seriously I think in the last monthe we may have had two almost sleep throughs....it's frustrating because I know that if nothing was wrong he would sleep just fine, he settles well and wants to be asleep, just can't.  Same for naps really, they are always too short.  We are going through the 2 to 1, but it's so hard because if he refluxes at all he wakes at an hour or so and can't sleep longer, poor little darling!! I thought he would sleep well last night 'cause he had a couple of hours sleep all together (1.4 and about 20 mins in car later on) and he settled down happily chatting to his toys, but no....I never can tell!!

I'm sorry you are so so hot, and hope Oliver feels better soon (and you get some relief soon).  Seriously sweetie, this is not your fault or anything you can control so don't get too disheartened that things aren't working how they are "supposed to"....you are doing a great job with a difficult medical condition and your little man is just gorgeous

Huge Hugs
Lizzie

[babybarr]

Thanks Lizzie for your kind words, you are really helping me get through this.  I've looked and looked every day for these "teeth" but still none!!  Silly thing is his first bottom teeth came through and I didn't even know!!  His top four teeth more hassle - but four at once not much fun - then the 7th one (bottom) was a nightmare and the 8th one just seems to be nowhere!!!

I'm going to take him to the docs next week.

The reflux thing is definitely up every hour thing for us too.  When he's poorly he is up every hour at night - I guess reflux is much worse when poorly too.

Where are you on the whole teeth front at the mo?

It's cooled down a little and he did sleep a bit better yesterday so fingers crossed for tonight - and for you too.

Lots of love
Laura