Wriggling 7 month old wont sleep!!

[clazzat]

TBH I think that her routine at 7.5 months was about the same as it is now - up 6/6.20, nap 9.15-9.45, nap 12.30-2.30/2.45, bed by 6.30.  It's possible that her morning nap was 9-9.45, and I can't remember exactly when we dropped the catnap - if she was having it at this point it was 4.45-5.  Looking at it, though, I suspect that she didn't have it by this age, because that would only be 2h A time which doesn't seem long enough - we never get UT naps as she just won't go to sleep if she's not ready.

I don't really go by A times (although I bear it in mind if they are going to be really long for some reason) as I have had to fit the routine round dd1 and her activities - there is no way I am going to stay in all day with a toddler!    That means that I have an average A time for her age in the morning, a short one to lunchtime and then a long one to bed because she has such a long lunchtime nap.  I think we went through a stage where the A times weren't quite right for her, but we persevered with them and as she has settled in to them she has got much happier and sleeps much better.

[mokey_cat]

Thanks, your routine looks pretty good  .  Maybe I should try it!!  I try to go by tired cues but recently these have been confusing.  I cant seem to get her to take longer than 1hr25 nap just now so maybe if I cut that morning one shorter to 30-45 mins, she will sleep longer in the pm .  She dropped the CN at 5 months but recently we have had some reallllly long A times after her pm nap as both naps were short but she seems to settle better at night with a long A (but then we get an EW  ).  I think I am going to have to fiddle again.  Alexa helped me sort out her naps and every day was the same for 4 weeks - it was soooo amazing and easy to plan my day  .  But think Im back to the drawing board  .

X

[jopan78]

I did not read all the posts but could the crappy nap be due to short Awake time? At 7 months, they can do up to 3 hr awake time. You can try to extending Awake time in 10/15 min and see if you get longer nap.

My DD rolls in her sleep but can remain asleep if she is not stuck/ blinky does not drop off .....

[TurboMum]

sorry if I missed it but what is your LOs routine wake time?....and then what time do you put him down for his first nap of the day?

Annette.xx

Hi Annette,

His routine was never even close to the same everyday as his wakeup time in the morning always vary... we had days waking at 6am, days at 7.30am, days at 8.30am (of course he has EWs then I AP him back to sleep a bit more... ), today and yesterday he was up 5ish... so it is really difficult for me to catch his first nap on time/correctly and that's probably why his naps are always messed up cos it wasn't right at the beginning of the day...   Sometimes I tried to read his cues but oh of course like everybody else, their cues are CONFUSING! Doesn't matter if I follow cues or watch the clock, I always end up short naps (UT/OT I don't know, he seems crying from waking up all the time!)So... I really felt like I just can't get it right!

Today he was up 5ish and DH spent probably one hour and couldn't get him back to sleep.. so I nursed him and we both fell asleep until 7.30... so I thought oh good, that's good start time of the day. But then he was yawing around 8.30 and grumpy, and rubbing eyes quite a few times before 9 so I had to put him down and he was asleep at 9.10.... oh dear.. I thought we probably wouldn't need to start the nap until around 9.30 or 10am...but well you see...

I wonder how others deal with EWs.... do you just get your LO up or do you try to get them back to sleep? If back to sleep, how do you count the awake time?

Thanks, T xx

[clazzat]

What I have done, which is not *strictly* BW-compliant, is I have APOP'ed the last bit of the night to get to a time that I am happy to get up (6am for us) and then have put her down for her first nap based on that time.  For example, if she wakes at 4.30 (which she does a lot!) I feed her and we sleep together until 6 - her first nap is at 9.15.  If she wakes at 5 I do the same thing, but she is less likely to go back to sleep - I still put her down for her nap at 9.15 (maybe 10 minutes earlier if she seems really tired).  One of the problems with putting them down for their first nap after an EW is that if they go down too early it can reinforce the EWs and they continue.  They treat the first nap as an extension of the night so they keep waking up early knowing that they can make it up at the first nap - if you set the first nap time then they can't make it up in the same way, iykwim?

I would suggest that you chose a time to get up - 7 or 7.30 is good because you can then have a 12 hour day to 7/7.30pm - and make sure that your lo is up by that time.  Sometimes that will mean waking him, but that way you don't have to deal with working out each day from scratch - each nap will be at a similar time, so you will know when to watch for sleepy cues.

[TurboMum]

Hey thanks a lot Clazzat! That's great advice and I think I'm going to follow that! Hopefully I can start to get his time right SOON!

Yesterday he had good naps - 2x1.5hr (a bit broken as woke up at 30min mark but I got him back to sleep) and a 30min CN. And I managed to get him down at 7pm for the night which was 2hr20min from his CN wake-up which I also thought was good (I did aim for 6.30pm somehow it didn't happen )... but then he woke up AGAIN at 7.30pm - I thought it can't be OT again, can it? And this wake-up was looooooong until 9.10pm when he went down again but woke up 9.50!!! (well, that long wake-up was also partly due to me trying to let him fall back to sleep by himself as he was pushing me away but then again it didn't happen as he finally realise he couldn't do it without mummy  so I eventually cave in as it was just taking too long!)  I wonder why he still does this when he had good day rest?

But the good side is that he then slept until 5ish this morning -and missed his night feed! - I was totally surprised! I really hope this carries on but wonder was I just really lucky?!   

[clazzat]

Quite often when the day sleep falls into place they do drop the night feed as they are sleeping better so don't wake up for it.  Hope you get a repeat of it.

I have to say the long wakes in the evening suggest OT to me - when E had her CN, she only did 1h30 A on a 30 min CN, so was in bed 6.30 having woken at 5.  Maybe you could try getting him to bed a little earlier to see if he is more settled in the evening?

[TurboMum]

Do you think so? But I did start WD from 6.15pm aiming for bedtime 6.30 but he just didn't want to sleep. So I thought perhaps it was too early for him and he wasn't tired enough to go to bed? But as you said that wake up does sound like OT... what do you think I should do to get him to sleep if he resists like last night? 

Thanks and I too hope I have a repeat of it tonight but we just had a short pm nap (30min) and he wouldn't want to go back to sleep so I got him up. If he has a CN later which means bedtime could really be super early though - somewhere between 5-6... do you think that would be too early? or shall I offer another CN afterwards? 

Thanks sooo much for your help!!!

T xx

[clazzat]

I would be tempted to try for the really early bed - the risk with fitting in an extra catnap is that he will be UT going to bed.  Sometimes resisting going to sleep can be OT as well - it would be too easy if it only meant UT!    Try the early bed and see how it goes.  Are you bf'ing?  If E doesn't settle at bedtime I sometimes feed her again as a "it's really time to sleep" cue.

[TurboMum]

I know!!! It's sooo confusing and hard to tell, isn't it? I just wish things could be a little easier...

Oh well... eventually his CN fell between 4-5pm and he slept for near enough 45min this time which never used to happen before, so I was very impressed and pleased!   And also I managed to get him down at 6.30pm (horray!!!)... so let's see how the night goes.... I'm praying praying praying.... 

[mokey_cat]

Good luck tonight T!! 

[clazzat]

Good luck - fingers crossed for you!
Cx

[nazmommy]

I have a quick question about the wriggling....
When I lay her down and she is wanting to roll all over the place....I hold my hand on her back and my other hand on her leg to keep her from rolling.
Sometimes I feel that I am restraining her but she really gets to going when if I don't hold her in place.  Tonight, she really fought me so I picked her up and gave a quick hug and layed her back down with my head gently on her back to keep her from rolling.  She was out quickly after that. 
She is always crying when I lay her down...is that normal?  But she is usually out in under 15 minutes.  Her crying isn't a crazy cry just seems to be a go to sleep cry. 
My question is when she is really fighting me, should I just let her roll?  And then what should my next step be? 

[nazmommy]

Turbo Mom, I have recently had to just drop the cat nap all together b/c timing of it was interfering with her bedtime.  We have so many nw/ew that awake up time is hard for us too.  But I try to hold her to a 6/6:30 am time.  That really helps us regulate our day.  A consistent wake up time is was sooooo hard for us to come by.  Even now it gets pretty sketchy at times.  A consistent schedule is so hard.  Keep in mind that they are constantly changing too. Take your time and try to not get too stressed.  It will come.  Hold your lo tight and love him to pieces.  Schedules and sleep and cues are difficult but he knows you love him and that's ultimately what is most important.

You are doing a great job.  You are an awesome mommy and it will all get better soon!  Keep praying!

[clazzat]

Nazmommy - it is entirely normal for them to cry when you put them down.  For many los this is just their way of finally winding down to sleep, and if it only lasts for a couple of minutes or if it doesn't seem urgent or escalate then this is the mantra cry and she should just be left to it.  As for the rolling, does she roll around for a little while and then go to sleep, or does this stop her falling asleep completely?  If she can settle herself, you should leave her to roll until she is ready to go to sleep - the less interference the better.  If it is keeping her awake, you should keep doing what you are doing to help her stay still enough to sleep.