Help needed with 4 month old!

[mjburt]

Any tips/insights y'all might have would be super helpful.

How old is your child? 4 months

What’s his/her daily routine?  Up around 6 AM - mostly play/awake time in between naps - have an older toddler so the schedule is much looser this time around - b/c of reflux I have nursed every 2-3 hrs during the day these first months.  He can go 4 hrs if he is with my husband, but if I am near he wants to eat at around 3 hrs.  Sometimes falls asleep while nursing - sometimes gets drowsy and falls asleep in our arms.  He will stay asleep when placed down flat on his back (if swaddled) and in his car seat (if not swaddled).

What’s nap routine?Nap 1 (30 min.)@9ish - Nap 2 (2-3 hrs)@11ish - Nap 3 (30 min.)@3ish - Nap 4 (sometimes/30 min) @ 5:30 ish

How long are naps?  See above.  Three catnaps and one LONG nap in the middle of the day

What's bedtime routine? Time?  Bedtime: Dinner, Quiet Play, Sponge Bath, PJs, Nurse, Dad rocks to sleep.  He has been going to sleep at around 7 PM, but wakes 30 min. after, has to be resettled, then down for the night.   I've tried keeping him up until 8:30 or so (giving him another catnap), but it hasn't seemed to help.

Do you bottle or breastfed??  Exclusively breastfed

How much? or how long?  Until he's finished?

If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)  both sides at each feed

How many wakes per night?  Usually one or two - we've had a few nights where he's gone 6 hours, woken once, and gone 2 more hours.  Lately, though (and I don't think it's a growth spurt) he has been waking SO frequently.  He'll do a couple of 2 hr stretches & then wakes nearly every hour after that.

What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up?  Fusses.  I try and hold him to settle him, but when I place him back down he's restless.  He kicks his little legs straight up in his swaddle and his eyes are wide open.  He doesn't want to play.  If I nurse him, he goes right back to sleep.

When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?  Fussing.  I'm not sure what a mantra cry is?

What have you tried to settle??  Rocking, Patting, Ssh-ing, Walking him, but usually I'm so tired I just nurse him.

What do you do for A time and how long is it?  I'm not that scheduled because of toddler.  Sometimes I wear him in a wrap so he can see what's going on (but he doesn't sleep in it).  We play with his mobile or do tummy time on the floor.  He spends a good deal of time watching his older brother.  Ha!

Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?  Possibly pre-teething?  He has rolled over once for each side, but he doesn't seem to be working on that right now.

Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)  Not yet.  I was thinking of waiting a little longer.  Should I introduce it?

Do they have a prop? If so what is it?  No - I dont' think so.  He doesn't go down easily unless swaddled.  I've tried a couple of times without to see if that was causing him to be restless, but he flails his hands so it wakes him up more.  Sometimes, if he isn't swaddled and drowsy, he will suck on his fist.

Do they have a lovie?No.

Thanks so much for any insight everyone!  I don't want to do CIO, but I really need him to sleep more.  Also, I'm willing to try different things during the day.  

For what it's worth, I tried to follow the Baby Whisperer suggestions very conscientiously with my first, and he didn't really take to them.  Always had three 45 minute naps until he went down to two hour long ones - now he sleeps for one 1.5 hr long nap a day.  And does fine at night, although we did let him CIO for two nights at around 9 months to get him over the final hurdle.  

[LizzieN]

Hey sweetie,
In my experience 30 minute naps are a classic sign of over tiredness...From what I can see your LO is doing about 3 hours A time in the morning before the first nap??  That seems incredibly long to me for a 4 month old, my bub was doing those sort of streaches at about 10 months (usually about 2.5 hours in the morning).  Also your day seems a little long to me, I would think that perhaps making your bed time closer to 6pm may help???

Look I'm not an expert, I think you are doing an amazing job having a 7pm bed time, we have a reflux bub and it took me till about 8 months to consistently get him down at a certain time in the evenings, it was hard.  I'm only suggesting a few tweaks because you seem to be having a lot of 30 minute OT wake ups.

I wouldn't be starting solids this early unless you feel like your LO is ready.  We found that solids caused more NWs because they made our LO gassy, so I would steer clear for a while if possible!!

Do you feed when your LO gets up, or feed at the end of A time?  I would strongly advise feeding as soon as your LO gets up rather than feeding to sleep during the day...If your LO still has some reflux issues and gas issues it means they have longer to get it out (with their A time) and it also means that there isn't an association with feeding and sleeping (it's fine at night, you just feed then straight back to sleep obviously).

Is your LOs reflux under control? 

gotta go, sorry hope some of that helps, I'm sorry I'm not an expert just didn't want to read and not post.  Big hugs
Lizzie

[mjburt]

Thanks Lizzie!

I hadn't thought about it, but you're right - that first stretch seems awfully long.  I'm usually sleeping then, so he's with my husband (not that I'm complaining - those two hours can make SUCH a difference), but an earlier nap would probably help.

I will try an earlier bedtime.  The later bedtime is a total bust - he was definitely overtired tonight and having such trouble calming down.  Poor wee man!

Good tip about the solids - we started our first right at 4 months, and I remember wishing we had waited, so I'm glad to know waiting won't hurt the sleep progress.

I confess, I kind of feed him whenever.  A lot of times he's not interested in eating when he first wakes up.  But he doesn't necessarily nurse to sleep.  Usually, he eats in the middle of his activity time, and then once to nurse a little bit once he gets sleepy.  Even just typing this out is helping me see some problem areas.

I think the reflux is getting better.  It was pretty bad early on, but he was gaining weight really well, so we decided not to do any meds.  He slept in his car seat for the first couple of months, but he's in his crib now, although I can't put him down right away after feeding him.  So I do hold him for about 10-15 minutes after he's asleep in the middle-of-the-night feedings.  He still spits up several times a day, especially if he hasn't been held upright for awhile after eating.  Sometimes this feels so inconvenient, but at least he doesn't fuss or cry when it happens anymore, so I don't think it hurts quite like before. 

Thanks again!  I appreciate your help!

[LizzieN]

You're welcome sweetie
I wouldn't worry about when you feed him as long as you aren't feeding to sleep, just wondered if he was starting to rely on you to fall asleep again at night time.  One thing with refluxers is they get used to comfort feeding (and need it when they are in pain), so it's easy to get that association at night time I think...I did the same, if he woke I fed him.  In the early days it was the easiest way to calm him down and seriously with all the vomiting he did I was never certain that he wasn't hungry!

Do you put him to bed asleep or awake?  Have you tried putting him down when he is either nearly asleep or only just asleep but keeping your hands on him with gentle pressure, so he starts to feel comforted in the cot rather than just in your arms?  I put mine to sleep in my arms for 11 long months because of the reflux, but if that is under control it may be time to start getting your LO used to being comforted in the cot (if you aren't already ).

Initially when you start giving solids they really aren't getting that many calories anyway, it's more about experimenting with flavour and texture, so I wouldn't worry about solids just yet unless you really want to or feel your LO needs it!!

One thing, when I was reading other posts one of the experienced mums said that night wakings (even after 4 or 5 hours down) can be caused by OT....that is they wake in the middle of the night after a fair chunk of sleep because they were tired...sounds strange, but I must confess if our LO is too tired about three hours after I put him down we have a wake up!!!  Strange but true, so perhaps some of your NWs will settle down with an earlier bed time....I HOPE!!

Good luck sweetie, keep chatting
Lizzie