please help - I can't make sense of anything

[LizzieN]

Sweetie is your LO waking that early 'cause he has a BM on the way?  I think your LO has reflux too??  Was wondering if that was still playing a role in these continuous wakings?

Hugs to you
xx Lizzie

[mmom]

Lizzie - My LO still has BM's in the morning.  That definitely wakes him I think.  But I also think that now he is wired to wake that early.  He has been waking at the time for several months, so I think it would take a few weeks of consistent later bed times to get a later wake up.  We can't get that, because I can never get consistency. 

This morning I tried putting my LO down at 9:30.  Actually I started the wind down at 9:15 and had him down a little before that.  After rolling in his crib for a while, he started his usual screaming.  When I couldn't calm him without picking him up after 15 minutes, I picked him up and left the room.  We then tried again at 9:45 and then at 10:15.  No dice.  Finally, at 10:45 I put him down and he moaned for a second and fell asleep.  He ended up waking at 12.  I didn't think I should wake him because it was already so late in the day.  I ended up having to feed him right away, because of course it had been hours since he ate.

DH thinks I should just put him down late every day.  How on earth is he able to handle that A time?  He has no tired cues anymore.  He starts rubbing his eyes at 9, but he is all bright eyed and not ready.  I don't know how to tell.  We are going to aim for an early bed time, because I am sure he won't go down again.  But even bed time is a fight.

[lilac83]

I think having him asleep by 5pm may be your best bet, that's 5hr A time so he should be tired. How close is he to 1? There are some 1yr olds fully transitioned to 1 nap. The problem is his early wake up so his nap is going to fall at 10:30am every day and if he doesn't sleep at least 1.5/2hrs the OT cycle is just going to continue.

Can you perhaps alternate 1 nap and 2 nap days for awhile and see how he does? On the 1 nap days do an early bedtime and on the 2 nap days do a slightly later bedtime. Perhaps his wake up time will start getting later in the day as well.

[mmom]

Well, I tried to put my LO down at 5 and per the usual, he resisted.  At first he just rolled around in his crib.  Then he started to slam his feet and then he started crying.  At 5:45, I took him out of his room and we sat on the floor an talked.  Then at 6, I tried again.  This time, he rolled and tried to settle and finally feel asleep at 6:15.  So we had a 6 hour 15 minute a time.  Unbelievable.  Very exhausting and very time consuming.

Lilac, I would love to have a short nap and then a longer one.  A later wake up would be great.  But my LO seems to have a mind of his own.  I know I am supposed to guide him.  But he still does want he wants.  Every night is a production now.  It is getting tiring.

[lilac83]

Is he acting tired during wind down and then revving up when placed in his crib or is he just not acting tired? Obviously you can't make him sleep and really, if he's happy and healthy what more could you want? Well besides a later wake up and more downtime during the day perhaps, but really in the end I bet his health and happiness trumps that.

If it's getting to be too much, go with the longer A's for awhile and see what pans out. The worse that can happen is he ends up OT (which he may or may not be now, it's really hard to say) and he'll need shorter A times and fall back onto 2 naps for awhile. I spent some time looking through schedules for 12+ month babes today and some were only doing a 1.5hr nap with 11hr night. Some kids just need less sleep. I have read numerous online sites (yeah I've been doing some research lately, can you tell?!) that say by 1 most kids need 10-13hrs of sleep per day.

If you still have it in you to keep trying for the 2 naps, by all means go for it. I'll be here to help anyway I can and I'm sure Lizzie will too. I just want you to know that if it doesn't work, by no means are you considered a failure or him a difficult child. Everyone's different!

Now, having said all that, if he is acting cranky or is overly difficult you could always try longer wind downs or start trying WI/WO again (it seems he's pretty much over the crib fear/SA, no?).

[LizzieN]

Hey sweetie,
I agree with Robin...one of the main ideas of BW is that you listen to YOUR baby....if your baby is handling longer A times than expected, not showing tired signs and settling well, sleeping well after longer A times....GO FOR IT.  If you notice he is getting tired after a few days of this go for a couple of naps if you can....s.a. a good morning one and then a car cat nap in the afternoon (or other way around) and always keep your bed time at around 6pm if that's what works for you all

No doubt his sleep needs will change and increase when teething or growth spurts happen, but you are so observant with your LO that you will handle these times just fine.  Believe in yourself and your observations and give it a go for a little while

As Robin said we are both here for you, any time   Keep us posted on how you are going, hang in there and try not to get too anxious about it all....."normal" is a very broad range and it sounds like your LO is healthy, happy and gorgeous. I recon your LO is waking early because he has a BM coming, don't worry this does shift around (or it has with our LO) and when that does, hopefully the EWs will reduce xx

xx Lizzie

[mmom]

Thanks again for the support ladies!  This morning was the 1st morning that either A) the lack of sleep got to him or B) the teething woke him, because he was babbling in his crib at 4:45.  He could have been awake before that, but that is when I first heard him.  He did not fall back to sleep and DH got him at 5:45.  This is one sleepy household....with the exception of my LO that is!  He had been sleeping 6:30 - 5:30 for the last 3 nights regardless of how the day went.

Lilac, I forgot to answer your question from earlier.  My LO will be 1 in 2 weeks (the 23rd).  I also love that you are doing all of this research, because that is how I am.  Except this time I have been obsessively reading on this site, because it is interesting to see how other moms do it.  But it seems like my LO is the exception when it comes to sleep needs.

He is so happy all day, until it is time to go to sleep.  I don't think it is the crib fear anymore or SA, because I have been staying in the room with him while he falls asleep.  He is fine when I first put him in.  Then he tosses and turns for a while and that is when he starts to get aggitated.  He will start crying hard and won't stop until I take him out of the room and then I have to start all over.  It is hard to tell if he is OT and fighting sleep or just not ready.  DH thinks he is just not ready and I am trying to make him do something that he doesn't want to do.

I feel like an idiot because I can't read his tired signs anymore.  He used to start rubbing his eyes and I knew he was ready.  But he rubs his eyes at his old nap times and if I were to put him down then, he would never sleep.  I thought he would be more sleepy because of these 2 teeth.  But I feel like it is the opposite.  I wish they would totally poke through already.  We can still only see white parts, but not a total tooth.

[LizzieN]

I wonder if your reflux is flaring when he tries to lie down sweetheart...As you know it effects their sleep in a big way!!!  Also don't feel guilty, it took me forever to "get" my LOs cries etc with the pain/hunger/tired/crabby etc.  Also my LOs cries really changed at around 12 months, got really shriek-y and angry sounding for a little while there, very hard to hear!!

Praying for big toothy pegs for you soon
xx LIzzie

[mmom]

Lizzie, I never know if it is the reflux or EE affecting my LO.  What I do remember is when his symptoms were really bad, he would go to sleep, but wake 10 - 15 minutes later hysterically crying.  Also, if I couldn't get him down, AP would work.  This past week it has seemed different. AP doesn't make him sleep.  It is like he doesn't want to.  But again, all a guessing game.  I have no idea!

I know what you mean about the shrieking!!  I am sure about the teeth though.  My LO is putting his whole fist in his mouth and biting down.  I can tell it bothers him.

I was able to squeeze in a 30 minute nap by taking my LO for a walk in the stroller this morning.  The little stinker didn't fall asleep until 40 minutes in.  So, I had to walk longer than I wanted.  But it avoided the stress of one nap.  Then I put him down at 1 and it only took 10 minutes for him to settle.  A record for this week!!

[lilac83]

That's great that you could get a catnap in this morning. What was his A time between the 30min nap and his next nap? Crossing my fingers he sleeps well for you this afternoon!

I have very limited info about reflux, but to me it doesn't sound like the problem. When he falls asleep he can sleep past 1hr and he isn't having NW. The EW could be from OT or from the teeth. My DD is a notorious EW when a tooth is about to cut. In fact that's how I knew it was going to cut soon, 2 days of EW and a tooth would cut. She is hardly ever crabby, in fact I rarely even give her numbing gel or pain reliever.

Keep an eye on that EW, but if he's even refusing to fall asleep for AP he's probably just not tired enough.  It gets tricky around 10 months until they're on 1 nap because even with a short nap, the A time is so long it's hard to fit in enough total sleep. So if he wants 2 days or so of just one nap, then expect him to need 2 naps on the 3rd day or there abouts.

[mmom]

My LO slept from 1:10 1- 3:10.  He woke this morning maybe 4:30 ish.  I went out on the walk at 8:45 and he fell asleep at 9:26 and he slept for 1/2 hour.  We then had a 3 hour A time and he slept for 2 hours.  The only thing with today is that the bed time will be really late.  But it has been the best day in weeks.

[lilac83]

That is super news about the nap! Maybe with a good nap day today and slightly later bedtime he'll sleep in a bit longer tomorrow morning! It looks like that morning A time today was still 5hrs long, he seems to like that number. Depending on how he is tomorrow, I would aim for 1 nap and see how it goes.

[mmom]

Yes, he does like the long A.  We tried putting him down at 8, but it took him a little while to settle.  Not a lot of crying, just settling.  He probably didn't fall asleep until 8:20 ish, which is late for him.  Hopefully, we have a later wake up! 

Thanks for all of the advice/support!

[mmom]

We are not off to a good start!  We still use the Angel Care Monitor and the alarm went off at 3:30 this morning.  My LO was curled up in a corner of his crib.  It woke him and it took 1 hour to get him back to sleep.  Then he woke again at 5:30 for good.  DH and I are exhausted.  The worst part is, I have friends in town and we were up late.  They are still sleeping and we have been up for what feels like forever.  I don't think my LO will make it 5 hours this morning, so I am going to try a walk again.  Hopefully, that does the trick.

[lilac83]

Wow, crazy night! Hopefully that AM walk will work again. That would be great if he could get the 30min AM and 3hrs later take another long nap! Good luck!