Flip flopping E & A time

[sawyersmomma]

Hello,
My 7 wk old was doing really well with easy.  He's eat, be awake for 60-90 min. & then sleep.  He had about 3 hour or 3.5 hour cycles.  But visitors came in from out of town & the he's now flipped his E & A time.  HE'll sleep for 30 in & then just be awake.  Then he'll drift back off for a little bit, wake up for 20 min or so & then want to eat & go right to sleep . . .
How do I get him back to Easy?
Help!  He was doing so well before!

[huntersmummyinoz]

sorry for the late reply.

what does his typical day look like at the moment (in EASY format please)?
E
A
S

when is his typical wake up time?

what A time are you aiming for now?

kirry

[sawyersmomma]

Hello!
Here's a typical day
E - 4:45 am both sides
A - try to have as little as possible
S - 5:20 in crib no pu/pd 3 oz bm

A - 8:30am - woke up smiling & wide awake but not interested in food yet
S - became cranky at 9:30 & drifted off to sleep until 10:00.  Woke up after 10:00 until 10:55 when he was put back in his crib (2 pu/pd)

E - 12:39pm right side only
A - awake 1 hr 35 min
S - 2:15 no pu/pd

E - 4:04pm both sides
A - 1 hr 30 min
S - 5:30 in crib woke up 3 times fussing

E - 7:25pm R side only
A - 1 hr 55 min
S - 9:20 1 pu/pd at around 9:40 restless sleep

E - 10:14pm both sides but ate light it seemed
A - less than 45 min
S - 10:56 in crib for the night

Here's today's schedule so far but we had our 2 month appt. so he had 3 shots.

E - 4:50 am both sides
A - little over an hour
S - 6:00 ish (my husband put him back to sleep & didn't write down the time)

E - 9:30am after getting shots
A - 8:05 - he was awake about 2 hrs total
S - 10:05 - put woke up around 10:45 & wouldn't go back down until about 11:15

E - 1:02 pm both sides
A - almost 1 hr 15 min fussy the whole time
S - 2:15 no pu/pd

E - 4:33pm both sides
A - almost 2 hours started wind down at 6:15
S - 6:20 no pu/pd

Let me know what you think.  Sawyer often wakes up early before the 8ish 9ish feeding & will do the same thing around the 7ish 8ish feeding too.  Then I have to wake him up for the 11ish feeding.  He'll usually stay sound asleep until 4:00am & will go back to sleep with some shhing & pats until almost 5:00am.
Thanks for any help!

Clarissa

[huntersmummyinoz]

for that early morning feed, treat it as a night feed (low lights, no talking, etc) and settle straight back to sleep. dont let him have any A time here, just swaddle and settle for sleep (i suspect this is what you are doing tho??)

then on wake up offer a top up feed, doesnt matter if he only takes a small feed as it is just a top up so that you can start your day on EASY. it also doesnt matter if it has been less than 3 hrs from the early morning feed. that should also help separate the E from S a little more and put your routine in a more predictable EASY order. he is still quite young so if he is waking at 4am, i would suspect he is hungry and personally i'd just feed him straight away then and settle back to sleep, offering this feed a little earlier (rather than holding him out til 5am) may help him take a bigger feed one wake up. hopefully if we tweak this early part of his routine then the rest of the day may start to run more smoothly too.

also, what wake up and bedtime are you aiming for?? ideally you aim for a 12hr day/night, eg. if you want bedtime to be at 7pm, then wake him at 7am.

he is also too young for proper PU/PD. tracy didnt recommend using this until they are 4mths old. instead use the shh/pat technique. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0

HTH
kirry

[sawyersmomma]

Hi Kirry,
I am treating that 4 -5 ish feed as a night feed.  He had been going right out as soon as I'd swaddle him & put him down, but lately he's been fussing more after that feeding.  We do the shh's/pat as well but it's good to know about the pu/pd.  I didn't realize I should wait a bit on that.  So is it still best to put him in his crib when he's at that 3rd stage of droopy eyes sleep?
I'd like his first morning feed to be around 8am.  But I do like his feeding before that time to be around 5:00am.  That would work best for me getting ready for going back to work.  If he has a feeding at 5:00am then I can breastfeed him & pump before I'd have to get ready for work.  I go back to work in just under a month.
So how can I tweak his schedule around that?  Today he was up around 8:20am but showed no sign of hunger & refused his bottle.  He took about 1/2oz before getting hysterical around 9:10am.  Then he was up until 9:50 & went to sleep deeply.  I finally woke him up at 12:30 because he'd eaten so little & slept so long.  He has been eating less it seems over the last couple of days.  He has a fit if I offer him the other breast.
Thanks for any advice you can pass along!  I'm trying to start a pattern that will put me in good shape to go back to work.

Clarissa

[huntersmummyinoz]

ok, if you are aiming for an 8am wake up then bedtime should be 8pm. df closer to 11pm if you are doing one. also if you want to establish a 8am wake up for when you are back at work, i would start waking him at that time now. then follow the rest of your EASY from there.

yes, he is still quite young so putting him down at 3rd stage droopy sleep is fine. over time you will begin to put him down more and more awake.

if he is refusing that feed on wake up then i'd look at reducing the 4/5am feed. my LO was only ever single side feeding and dropped that early morning feed on his own (and was always a little piggy in the mornings!) so i'm not the best one for advice there, maybe post on bf board for advice on reducing that feed in order to get him taking a bigger feed first thing in the morning.

kirry

[sawyersmomma]

Hello,
I am basically doing a df at 11pm but 3 days a week I'd been waking him, if he hadn't waken already, which usually he hadn't, and had been giving him a bath just before the 11pm feed.  That seemed to increase his hunger & he'd stay down longer.  Should I do the bath after the 8pm feed? 
Ultimately, should my goal be to have him go 8pm to 8am, with a df at 11pm & keep that 4/5am feed now because of his age?  Right now I basically have to wake him up before almost every. It seems he'd like to go 4 hrs between feedings for each.
Thanks!

Clarissa

[huntersmummyinoz]

i'd do the bath before the 8pm feed. with hunter at that age his evening looked something like this: 5 - 5.45 catnap, 6 bf one side, bath, baby massage, pjs, etc, 7ish bf other side, wind down, df 10pm. (tracy only recommended the cluster feed for the first 8wks, but hunter needed this til about 3mths old as otherwise he would wake before the df).

ideally you also shouldnt wake for the df, so just pick him up, feed, and straight back to sleep (low lighting, no talking, etc). he may waken slightly as you pick him but should get sleepy as soon as feed starts.

he is still pretty young, so i would still be waking him every 3 hrs to feed, better to get more calories in during the day than at night! is he napping for 1.5hrs or more for each EASY cycle? as he gets closer to 3 mths, you could start to slowly increase the cycle to a 3hr15, then 3hr30, 3hr45 EASY over the next month or two until he is on a 4hr EASY at around 4/5mths old. to handle a 4hr EASY he would need to be able to handle a 2hr A time and nap for 2hrs.

[sawyersmomma]

Hello!
I haven't been able to get back onto this website in weeks!  I was crazy without it!  I'm not sure how or why I was able to get back on but I am still dealing with the schedule issues.  He's better about not flip flipping E & A time but he is so asleep at 11pm that he is not eating.  Some nights it'll take me 20 minutes just to get him to latch on to eat. And he sleeps & hardly eats.  So then he fusses at 2 & at 3 & at 4.  He doesn't df -he just sleeps. 
Is there some trick to it?

[huntersmummyinoz]

hi hun,
sorry for the late reply. moved house and country so things have been crazy!

how are things going? also if you have a new thread let me know and i'll pop over there.

kirry

[sawyersmomma]

Sigh . . . the poor little guy is so confused.  I keep wanting to post my EASY schedule but there isn't one.  Vacation messed up his schedule, then bottle training & his refusing the bottle & not eating (which resulted in no naps or short naps & lots of crying), now the little guy is sick.  So I just don't seem to be able to re-establish any pattern.  Plus I'm at work while my husband has him 3 days a week & then he's at day care (in-home care with a couple other kids) the other 2 days.
I don't even know where to begin at this point getting back on track. 
AH!

[Tinia]

Aww.. sounds like you're having a really rough go. (hugs) Maybe you can get your hubby and daycare to keep a record for you so you know what's happening and the wonderful ladies here can give you some advice. Hope LO and yorself feel better soon.

[huntersmummyinoz]

hugs hun, sorry you're still having a rough time. i agree with pp, can you ask care and DH to keep record for you and we'll see how we can help out??

[sawyersmomma]

I wasn't sure if I should post my latest message here or under sleep but once again his schedule is falling apart.  I have the WAAAAA!!!! post under the sleep - getting back on track . . . Still going crazy & am now sick all the time.  Considering there are at least 7 cases of H1N1 currently at my school(at least one of which is my student), that is dangerous.  I'm still completely at a lose of what to do.  We did get bedtime to 8:30 which is great but now Sawyer is up at 2:00am or 3:00 am & talking & cooing . . . his whole schedule is posted under the other message board . . .
Plus - I've tried to attach a picture of the little guy so it shows up when I post but apparently I'm doing it wrong because it has never shown up!!  how do I do that??

[huntersmummyinoz]

regarding the photo go to:
- 'user cp' (tabs at the top of your page)
- 'my profile'
- 'i will upload my own picture'

then click the 'browse button' and select the file you have the pic as. (at least that's how i do it anyway...)

hugs hun, i will pop over to your other post.