Author Topic: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?  (Read 1389 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline skippyjo

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 7
  • Location:
Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« on: July 12, 2009, 19:06:53 pm »
Hi - I'm new here...

My son has just turned 1 and has gone through various different phases of sleeping and settling. He has mostly fed to sleep (I still bf) with periods of him sleeping 8-10 hrs straight, to periods of 2 or more wakings, periods where he has settled himself with minimal fuss, and periods where we have tried a form of CC and where he has sometimes settled well, and sometimes not settled at all!

At the moment we seem to have got into a phase of sitting with him until he is asleep, as the CC just was not working and was making us all upset. This is our routine:

6.30ish - Bath
7.00ish - bf, read some books/sing songs, then put him in the cot and sit next to it, hugs and kisses, then pretend to go to sleep with my head resting on the cot bars. He rolls around a bit, climbs up and pulls my hair, gives me more hugs and kisses, talks to his toys or shouts at the ceiling and then eventually turns over and over and goes to sleep. This can take from 10 mins to an hour. If I leave before he's asleep he will stand up and cry until I come back. I like being there for him, and I like watching him fall asleep, but I would also like for him to be able to settle himself eventually.

So how do I go about this???? Should I sit further away? Should I leave and come back and leave and come back? Should I wait until he's on the cusp of sleep and leave? I just don't know. My instinct is that when he's slightly older he might be happy to entertain himself in his cot with a book or toy until he falls asleep but at the moment anything that's put in his cot gets chucked out.

Thanks in advance.

Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2009, 15:28:32 pm »
since you've already done some CC, GW is the way to go.  We need to re-establish trust so that he knows mama will be there when he needs her.

The way we do GW is we slowly remove our presence from their sleeping routine.  You will stay until he falls asleep every night, but every 2 days you will increase the distance between you and DS.

*First 2 nights I want you to do what you're doing now.  The only modification is I want you to verbalize "Mama is going to sit right here until you fall asleep. I love you!" 

*Next 2 nights you need to sit in a chair so that it's just far enough that DS can't reach you with his hands.  We want minimal interaction too.  If he cries, you are to comfort him.  It's OK to go over and give him a hug and say 'mama loves you honey! It's time to go to sleep!"  But otherwise I don't want you to talk to him or even tell him to lay down or anything.  He has to do the work of relaxing and fall asleep.  You're just there for security sake, to let him know that you're there for him.

*Next 2 nights you move chari a bit farther.  I usually like parents to get across the room in about 3 stages.  But it depends on how big the room is and how LO is taking to the process! If he seems SUPER needy (lots of crying/whining), then you can just move the chair a bit.  If he seems like he's adjusting (some protesting, but quiets down relatively quickly) then you can move towards the center of the room.

*Next 2 nights you should be close to the door.  Same rules as above re: interaction

*Next 2 nights you should be in the doorway where he can see you.

*Next 2 nights outside of the room, but in the doorway where he can see you.

*Next 2 nights outside of the room and out of his view.  You can say something from there like "Mommy is right here, honey! I'll be here until you fall asleep."  If he cries or protests go and comfort him, then return to your seat.  If he's just fuss-fussing, then you can just say "It's OK honey, mama's here.  It's sleepy time now!"



Before you start this GW process make sure you have a good wind down routine in place.  It should involve comfort/cuddles from mommy, relaxation of some kind (books, music, massage, whatever he enjoys).  One thing I find works really well with toddlers is telling them what to expect and how to go to sleep, and also explain that EVERYONE is going to sleep.  Something like this "We're getting all relaxed now because it's night-night time! Everyone is going to sleep: daddy's going to sleep, mommy's going to sleep, teddy bear is going to sleep, tootsie-toes are going to sleep, fingers are going to sleep..." etc. etc.  Sort of verbalizing helps put them in the mood, so to speak!  You can also let him know HOW you go to sleep -- this has been an important thing for my son: "When we go to sleep we lay down in our beds and we close our eyes.  Then we think of all the fun things we did today.  We let our arms and legs and fingers and toes get all limp and relaxed.  And then we fall asleep! Next thing we know it's morning time and time to play!"   Words are very powerful for toddlers because they believe what we say! LOL! If we tell them the world is sleeping, they believe us.  And it helps them to feel sleepier because then they're not missing out on anything!  ;)
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline skippyjo

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 7
  • Location:
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2009, 17:30:34 pm »
Thanks becky for your reply. Nice to have a walk-through to refer to...

*First 2 nights I want you to do what you're doing now.  The only modification is I want you to verbalize "Mama is going to sit right here until you fall asleep. I love you!" 

That's exactly what I do at the moment, I say "It's bedtime, I love you, Mama's here, I'm going to sit here until you're asleep so lie down and go to sleep," etc, etc...

Re: moving further away - he has a TINY little room so it will basically be a few feet away from the bed, then you're at the door! I can move far enough that he can't reach me, but the step after that will probably be the doorway. I guess we'll just see how he goes with it all.

One other thing: it's so bright on the landing that if his door is open his room is just flooded with light. How should I do the doorway step regarding this, as if I stand in the open doorway so he can see me, his room will be really really bright?

He's definitely got to the point where he is very aware of what is going on around him. The strange thing is that at nap times we ask him if he's ready for a sleep and he raises his arms to be picked up, then waves night night to anyone in the room and goes to kiss them. We put him down in his cot with a few cuddlies and say night night and he will cry for about a minute and then settle himself fine - so I find it weird that he can't do the same at nighttime... At what age do they understand that you will return when you leave?

Thanks again for your help. Will let you know how we get on... though actually we're going camping next week so everything will get totally crazy out of routine anyway!!

Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2009, 22:00:19 pm »
Hmmm, well that brings up a new possibility!

If he's totally fine at nap then it could be a routine issue: either he's UT or OT at bedtime.


What time is nap and how long does it last?
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline skippyjo

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 7
  • Location:
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 16:10:03 pm »
He normally naps at about 11.30 for 1.5 to 2 hours.

He is a bit off at the moment, think it's either teething or a bug (slight temp, grizzles, less appetite and clingy), though the sleep problems started at least a week or two before he came down with this.

Bedtimes have never been easy, so it's not like he's suddenly changed, it's been more of a gradual transition from thing to thing.

With regards to being OT or UT, we try to gauge it and adjust bedtime accordingly, like if he has a very short nap or a late afternoon nap we'll bring bedtime forward/back or extend/cut bathtime. If he's UT he'll definitely take longer to go to sleep. If he's OT he'll generally zonk out feeding.

Last night I tried to sit further away and he cried every time I did so - I returned to cuddle him and then returned to my chair but he cottoned on and just clung like a limpet to my neck! I ended up edging away once he'd let go and lain down and eventually he went to sleep. Will try again tonight! Thanks for the help.

Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 03:31:46 am »
If he's really clingy when you try to move your position, then stay right next to him for a couple more days.  We want this to be at HIS pace (while also challenging him).

I might try a bit earlier bedtime and see what happens too -- maybe 6:30?  If teeth are coming in then an earlier bedtime may be merited.  If he wakes form nap at 1:30, 7 pm bedtime is pretty long stretch for a 1 year old.
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline skippyjo

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 7
  • Location:
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 13:54:35 pm »
Well last night he didn't mind me sitting about a foot away from him for about 10 mins, but then as he started to get really sleepy he started crying for cuddles, so I moved closer and gave him comfort. He then tried to fall asleep on my arm! I laid him down and sang to him and he went straight off to sleep. Don't know if that was the right thing to do?

I don't know what's going on with teeth/illness. There is no sign whatsoever of teeth apart from a low grade temp and grumpiness. He was SO clingy yesterday afternoon and was obviously in pain, but we think perhaps he's just a bit ill rather than teething? Just don't know. Either way it's affecting naptime now. The last 2 days he hasn't napped until 2pm!! The first day he only had 45 mins, and yesterday he had about 1.5hrs. Today he threw his first tantrum (like kevin the teenager - the moment he turns 1 he has a tantrum, lol!) when we tried to put him to bed at 1pm, and I ended up sitting with him until he fell asleep like I've been doing at bedtime - so if anything we're taking a step back! Aaaargh!

I know this illness/whatever isn't helping things, so hopefully when he's better it will be easier to sort this all out. I feel like he needs the hugs/kisses until he's ready to lie down, at which point I can move backwards a bit...?

Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 14:27:10 pm »
It totally sounds like teeth to me.  The molars are BIG so they start bothering them long before they appear.  With my son it took about 2 weeks of symptoms before a molar would show up.  He did that for each and every 1 yr molar -- so 8 weeks total.  for the 2 yr molars it took a MONTH of symptoms for each tooth!  :o Yikes!

Anyway, he sounds like he's teething, so I'd continue to do as you're doing -- sit as far as you can to start with, but offer comfort when he needs it.  You did the right thing laying him down and singing.  Once the teeth are in/symptoms start we'll be more strict about interactions.  But right now he clearly needs you! So, we'll give him what he needs.   :)
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline skippyjo

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 7
  • Location:
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 20:48:26 pm »
Yikes indeed!!!  ;)

Thanks so much Becky - I've had a really crappy day (money/work worries/stress ugh!) and so completely mucked up tonight's bedtime...

I really needed a wee so was trying to hurry up the whole shebang a bit... once he had lain down and was settling I tidied up a few toys and he was looking glazed and half asleep and didn't really register that I was moving about, so i thought it might be safe to get up and see if I could make it to the door. I got there and he murmured "mama?" so I just said softly "mama's here" while I stood by the door. He sighed happily and rolled over, so I tried to sneak out. Well then he jumped up like a booby trap and started shouting "MAMA!" so i came back and gave him a hug and he laid down again. I just stood by the door and he kept jumping up again and then lying down and finally stood right by me and was chatting away, wide awake... I REALLY needed to pee by this point so I just said "I love you, I'll see you in the morning" and left (and peed...). He was quiet for about a minute then started screaming. I asked dh to take over at this point as I was just past it myself. Took him 10 minutes and ds was blowing kisses at him the whole time!

He does settle faster for dh, but at the moment I do most of the bedtime routine - he does baths every other night, but I always do bf (obviously!) and books as they're sort of interlinked, so then I usually go on to settle him as it just seems easier than bringing dh up to do the last bit which might confuse ds...? Once he's weaned off bf (or at least the bedtime one) then dh will obviously take over somewhat and we'll share bedtimes, but for now I can't just palm it off to dh as I need to be able to do this too...

Phew, keep giving you more problems don't I?!?! Thanks for your help.

Jo.x


Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2009, 23:20:25 pm »
I see no reason why DH can't do it! You can have DH do books after you're done with BF.  That's not confusing, and I actually think it will help! Many a family has found that when kids go thru this sort of SA during teething that having daddy do sleep stuff helps eliminate all the drama.  I think I'd give it a go a couple of nights and see how it is!  Tell DS what's happening "Mama needs to go put a load of laundry in so daddy's going to read you a story right now! I'll come back for a quick kiss before he's done.  I love you!"
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline skippyjo

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 7
  • Location:
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2009, 13:42:04 pm »
I see your point but what about the nights when dh can't do it? He's often not around at bedtime (won't be around all weekend either at the moment) so he can't do it every night. My worry is that he'll get it sorted and then i'll have to do a night and it'll all go wrong... is that just paranoid irrationality?

He's been a bit happier today, think because we've been out and about and distracted a lot too. Just thought to mention as well, is there a big developmental/growth spurt at 1yr? He's come out with loads of new words, signs and physical accomplishments in the last 2 weeks, and is eating loads (despite these mystery teeth?) - I know at 9 months he had a huge development leap and that completely screwed with his routine so was wondering if the same was happening now.

He slept ok last night. Woke up once because of the thunderstorm but fed back to sleep and was up at 6am. Then, for the first time in weeks he asked to go to bed at 9am, settled fine without me, and slept for a good 1.5hrs! We've had a busy day at a soft play place and he's just gone down again now (2.30pm) so hopefully will get a little more sleep and we'll see if it has a knock on effect. Thinking maybe 1 nap just isn't enough yet.

Unfortunately dh isn't around tonight, otherwise I'd definitely take your advice and get him to do bedtime!

Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 21:29:32 pm »
12 months is very young to be moving to 1 nap, so you're doing great to offer 2 when he needs it!

Yes, 1 is def. a time of lots of developmental changes!  It's a very rocky period for a lot of reasons, so patience is they key!

If may be that your bedtime troubles are from being OT b/c he's not totally ready for 1 nap.  I'll be curious to see how bedtime goes after a 2 nap day!

And I see what you mean, but I think it might be good to introduce DH into the bedtime routine.  Even if he can't do it all the time.
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline skippyjo

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 7
  • Location:
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2009, 22:50:55 pm »
I think you're right. He kind of weaned himself off the morning nap a few weeks ago so we just went with it, but at first bedtimes weren't a problem despite that so it's all very strange. We did try to keep getting him to have a morning nap but he was having none of it! He's normally very good at letting us know when he's ready for a nap: he comes up to one of us wanting to be picked up, then waves night night at whoever is in the room! But he hasn't been doing it so much recently (or fighting it so he can keep playing...) so I suppose we've been missing the sleepy cues.

He had another 1.5 hr nap this afternoon!!! Crazy! But by 6.30 - usual bath time - he was getting tired so I gave him a quick bath, bf, a few books and bed. Took me 1hr sitting by the bed - at first about a foot away and then ended up falling asleep myself on the cot bars  ::)... oh dear. He doesn't seem to mind the distance at first, but then when he's ready to lie down and settle he just gets inconsolable if I'm not next to him. I should have moved away again when he had calmed down but I guess I was tired too!! He woke up at about 10pm in pain I think, so I gave him a feed after trying to settle him with hugs and he's gone back to sleep fine.

Will try 2 naps again tomorrow and see how we go. Thanks for keeping an eye on me - this is SO helpful.  :)

Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Techniques for gradual withdrawl?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2009, 14:46:59 pm »
Sounds like he was OT at bedtime.  With toddlers, by the time you SEE the sleepy signs they've usually overshot the sleep window.  So, THANKS sleepy signs...FOR NOTHING! LOL!

I think I'd work real hard at finding the right A time post nap.  I think we're on to something!  At his age I'd expect him to be able to handle around 3.5-4.5 hours post nap.  Depends a bit on if he's always had a longer A at the end of the day or a shorter A.

Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!