3 yr old with multiple NW every night and EW, only sleeping 9 hrs all day!!!

[hdgmom]

We desprately need your advise so that ds (will be 3 Aug 5th) can get some sleep. How can we help our ds go to sleep without calling us back into the room several time after we have done our sleep routine and how do we combat multiple NW and EW? I know this is not brief and I thank you for reading and for any advise you may have.

He either wakes every 2 hrs at night for no apparent reason ( he's not wet, he's not thirsty) Or he will wake and be in and out of sleep for 1-2 hours before falling asleep and staying asleep. It seems like he has lost his ability to soothe himself whenever he wakes. 

Last night went like this:
8:30 wind down, leave room at 9, called dh back in 4 times, asleep at 9:30
12:00-1:35 wake and wrestled around, called me in several times til finally fell asleep and stayed asleep
4:35-5:00 wake and wrestled around, wanted to get up, when I refused to let him get up he then wanted help putting blanket back on. We tell him to do it himself and he just starts to scream
6:35 wake - I calculate only 7 hours of actual sleep!! He is tired: red eyes, yawning and cranky

He usually naps from 12:30/1pm to 3/3:30pm, for a total of 2-2.5 hrs. He often wakes from his nap after 1.5 hours but always wants to go back to sleep.

By my calculations he only sleeps 9-9.5 hours per day!!! I know it is not enough so how do I help him get more sleep?!

One problem is that dh doesn't believe that OT is part of the problem so since dh puts ds to bed while I put dd to bed, getting dh to put ds to bed earlier than 8:30 is not an option. We have fought about ds bedtime ever since dd was born and dh took over ds bedtime routine.

How do we stop ds from calling us back into the room after we leave and how do we combat the multiple night wakings and early wake ups? I know this was not brief and I thank you so much for reading and any advise you might have. 

[clazzat]

My first thought is that he probably doesn't need such a long lunchtime nap - that is almost certainly robbing from his nighttime sleep.  Because he is not really tired enough at night he is sleeping really restlessly and therefore getting more and more OT.  You say that dh would not put him down earlier - is there any way you can persuade him?  I also feel that 9 is quite late for a 3 year old to be going to sleep.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85130.0  This shows typical amounts of sleep - for 3 year olds it suggests 1ish hour of nap and 10.75 hours at night.

HTH.  Cx

[hdgmom]

Clazzat,
thanks for your reply. About a month ago I started waking him from his nap after 1.5 hours and he would scream and try to sleep on the couch and then he was crazy for the rest of the day so I thought he needed more sleep at nap time. But I can try to reduce his nap now and see what happens. That's really my only option. Unfortunately I can't convince dh that ds should be in bed earlier. I have been trying to convince him for 15 months, dh just doesn't see the need.

[Layla]

Sounds like he's quiet overtired to me. My 3yo averages about 11.5-12hrs of sleep (and sometimes even 13). I would give it a go waking him up 1.5hrs into the nap and then try for an earlier bedtime and give that a go for about a week. It might convince your DH that an earlier bedtime is not so bad after all. If Jasmine doesn't sleep during the day she is in bed and asleep by 6pm! My dh only gets to see her for 30mins... which is not that much at all... but I would rather that than have her wake up at night and scream because she's overtired.

I would wake from nap by 2pm and then try for bedtime around 7pm. Hopefully he'll be asleep by 7.30pm and sleep better at night.

Hope that helps and let us know how you go!

Layla

[hdgmom]

Layla,
Thanks for your response. I doubt I can convince dh to put Dustin to bed by 7pm, but maybe 8pm to start and see what happens. dustin has almost been asleep for 1.5 hours so I will go wake him and see what happens tonight and in the am. I really appreciate the responses, it is so nice to get some support. Wish me luck.

[Layla]

Thats ok. Expect him to be tired after waking him. If you can, take him out of the house to distract him, lol. Let us know how tonight goes!

[hdgmom]

Ok, it has been 2 days with 1.5 hour naps and the same bedtime of 8:30. Both nights he went to sleep quickly, out by 9 or 9:05 (this made dh happy). And both yesterday morning and this morning he woke at 6:30am with 2 NW each night. this is a great improvement. I was hoping for a 6am wake so 6:30 wake is amazing. He woke more easily from his nap yesterday than the first day so we will do the same today and see how it goes. Thanks for support! I will update again soon.

[clazzat]

Glad that you have had a couple of good days - hope it continues.
Cx

[Layla]

Good to hear hun. Enjoy your evenings!

 

[*Stephanie*]

How have things been going for the last month?

I've been dealing with the same thing with my 3 year old for the last couple of months.  We think that it is because she has extra energy left over from the day. Is ds running a lot through the day?  Does he ride a bike or any other physical activity? 

We tried shortening naps, but that only worked for a few weeks.  So last week, we took her nap away totally, and we put her to bed early.  This has worked until last night.  She woke last night, but I think that's because she didn't get to run around outside yesterday.

Let us know how it goes with you.....

[hdgmom]

Sorry I haven't responded sooner but I have not been able to access the website due to a server error. So things have been rough with the short naps. He started waking and staying up for about an hour just wrestling and unable to get to sleep. He would then wake at 5am saying it was "too hard to sleep". My dh refuses to even tryto put dustin to bed sooner thinking it will not help the situation and that dustin will wake at 4am. So I went back to longer naps, 1.75 to 2 hours depending on when he woke in the am and his attitude. I wake him at 3:30 unless he hasn't gotten at least 1.75 hours of sleep. Yesterday, he slept until 7:10 am!! I don't remember that last time he slept that late. And he only woke once in the night because he had kicked his blanket off and got cold so he was back to sleep in seconds. I also shortened his A time inthe morning to 6.5 hours so his nap in earlier. I think i was keeping him up too long in the morning. With an earlier nap he is tired by 8:30 and usually is asleep by 9 or shortly there after.

Stephanie- to answer your question, ds runs all day long, typical toddler can't sit still long enough to eat. I don't think ds is ready to get rid of the nap because his attitude changes dramatically. he stops listening, he becomes very defiant, he bothers his little sister more, he becomes more destructive, you get the idea. How is your lo's attitude without the nap? Besides, dh would not put him to be earlier if he skipped a nap. Please let me know how you and your lo are doing.

[hdgmom]

Here's another update on our sleep situation: he had a great night, slept from 9:25pm to 5:32 without a wake up. When he woke at 5:32am he did go back to sleep, reluctantly, and slept til 7:10am. His nap yesterday was just shy of 2 hours, dd woke from her nap crying and woke him up at 3pm (we have a small house so the kids wake each other up frequently). As always, thanks for reading and your support.

[*Stephanie*]

Maybe it just a phase your ds is going through.  I also think that the hour time change has affected us greatly.  I'll be glad when it goes back an hour in October.  DD is doing okay without her naps.  There is a point everyday when she could go to sleep, but she doesn't and just keeps playing.  Sometimes she will cry during this sleepy period, but we have an understanding.  She can cry all she wants in her room, and she can come out once she is finished.  DD is spirited, so her cries are LOUD!  So putting her in her room allows her to get it all out, and it allows me to think. 

This is week 2 of no nap for us.  We are not firm on this issue.  There's an occasional time when she will fall asleep on the way home from somewhere, and I'll let her sleep about 30min.  But overall, she's fine.  I think it's a transition for her.  I think DH misses her napping on the weekends.

Good luck, and hopefully he will be sleeping from 9:30 to 7:30 real soon. 

[hdgmom]

Well it has been 2 months since my first post and ds is still waking early and several times at night saying he has had a bad dream and wants to sleep with mommy and daddy or he says it is too hard to sleep and he can't do it. He takes great naps during the day and would sleep for 2.5 hours if i let him, i usually wake him after 1.5 - 1.75 hours. There have been a few days where he has slept straight thru the night or woken after 7am, but it has been several weeks now since that has happened and I can't figure out the "magic formula" to make it happen consistently.

Recently he has been telling me that he can't sleep at naptime, but then he proceeds to fall asleep right after his story. So I am wondering, is he waking at night and early in the am because he is ready to drop his nap altogether? How do i know when he is ready to drop his nap?

Please share everything you know about lo's droping naps altogether. Thank you so very much.   

[*arb*]

I am in a similar situation. Trying to figure out how to get DS to go to bed easier and earlier. He is napping - but only for a short time because I wake him up. But was told just tonight on this board to try and let him nap as much as he wants, then put him down for sleep after 4 hours of A. I'm so scared to try it, but don't want to fight bedtime (or stay with him) for an hour every night. So I think I might give it a whirl.

What is the typical amount of A time for 3 year olds in the morning before nap and then after? Just curious.

Thanks,
~A