17 mo waking early from nap and NWs, how do i help her get back to sleep

[hdgmom]

My 17 mo dd has been having all sorts of sleeping trouble lately and it seems that no matter what i do, it doesn't help her. She was sharing a room with me since she was born so when she woke in the night she easily went back to sleep because she could see me. Naps were no problem, both naps were 1.5 hours to the minute if not longer. Well 2 months ago we moved her to her own room, FYI her 3 yr old brother also has his own room, and I expected problems so I started GW to help her build trust in her new room and she was doing fine, I had made it out the door. She rarely woke in the night but she would wake at 5:30am, happy and playing. Her 2 naps were still 1.5 hours.
Also FYI, when I started sleeping training her I discovered that WI/WO does not work with her, after 3-5 WI/Wo she would stop crying when i left and just play and not sleep at all. One day I wanted to see how long she would play and she played for 1 hour, no sleep and no crying and I finally had to get her out of bed at that time because we had an app to go to. So I use GW.

Back to the problem, sorry this is so long already. So for the past month her naps have shorted to 50-60 min but she now wakes crying and yawning. She wants me to stay by her crib but when i do she slowly wakes, her eyes will close then slowly open etc until she wakes. When I go in and lay her down, calm her and then go stand by the door she cries, lays down, sits up and cries, lays down then sits up and plays. At night when she wakes I stay by the door until she falls asleep and she will sit up to see if i am still there and she will end up being awake for at least 30 min. every time she wakes at night. She is still waking at 5:30am but now she cries and is not happy.

I'm sure she is very OT and it seems that for some reason she has lost trust in her room even though i have never let her cry alone, I don't believe in that. So what can I do to help her extend her naps and soothe herself back to sleep like she used to? What am i doing wrong/missing? Her routine is below. I have tried shortening her A time in the am and after am nap but then she wasn't tired and wouldn't go to sleep, or she would only sleep an hour and wake at 2pm and be ready for bed at 5:30 pm .
5:30am wake unhappy
am nap: 3.5 to 4 hours after wake up, usually sleep 1 hour from 9:30ish to 10:30ish
pm nap: 3 to 3.5 hours after wake up from am nap, usually sleep 1 hour from 2:00ish-3:00ish pm
7:00-7:30 bedtime
Thank you for reading and for your support.

[deckchariot]

I'm guessing she's ready to transition to 1 nap.  Most bubs make the transition between 12 -  18mos, so I'm guessing she's ready.  Sleep needs also drop at 18 mos to 11.5 hrs overnight and 2 hrs in the daytime - and that's all in one nap.

There are basically 2 approaches to the switch:
1) keep 1st nap at the same A time every day, but gradually shorten the length of it; at the same time, move pm nap earlier (by the same amount you shorten nap 1).  When nap 1 is <30 min, attempt to cut it out and just have 1 nap.
2) push morning A time later, allow your bub to sleep as long as they want in the am, then do a late pm catnap (can be a shorter A time than in the am, as you don't want them to take a full nap); eventually cut out pm catnap.

If he needs a longer A time before bed, then option #1 is generally better.  If he doesn't and HATES being woken from the am nap, option #2 may be better.  In both cases, you can offer an early bedtime if one/both of the naps is bad.

Whichever approach you choose - it's best to go gradually - so either cut 15 min off the am nap every 3-5 days or lengthen the am A time by 15 min every 3-5 days.  It also is helpful to know about how much day sleep is "optimal" for your dd and how much A time she needs (minimum) between her last nap and bedtime - that can help you plan out the day.

hth
michelle

[Texomamama]

One thing that also seemed to help us with the 2-1 nap transition was the put DD down at night about 15-20 minutes earlier.  We did that for about one or two months and then moved it back to the original time.

[hdgmom]

Thank you so much for the responses. But I still need help.

If she takes a short am nap, like today, she won't extend her pm nap on her own, is there anything I can do to help her extend her nap?

Both naps were only 30 min today, so she has only slept for 1 hour today and woke from her pm nap at 2:15 and wouldn't go back to sleep. I know she won't make it to dinner time at 5:30pm. She will need another cat nap just so she will be awake enough to eat well at dinner. Her am A time was 3.5 hours and her pm A time was also 3.5 hours and both naps were only 30 min. That tells me that she was OT and needed to be to bed sooner, right??? do you think she would have slept longer if I had extended her am A time or shortened her pm A time? I have no problem shortening one of her naps but I can't get her to extend the other nap to make up for the short nap.

Come to think of it, there have been numerous days where she has had only one 60-70min nap all day and skipped her pm nap. I thought it was because I missed her window, kept her awake too long and she was just way too OT to settle for a pm nap, she just cried and wrestled and never settled. What do you thinK?

Thanks again for advise.

[deckchariot]

Does she tend to need a longer A time before bed or is she ok with a short A time before bed?  That seems to be the best way to figure out which nap to shorten.  If she needs a long  A time before bed, then shorten that first nap, but remember then because her nap is short, you need to bring the pm nap earlier or she'll be OT for it (which may be what happened with the 30 min pm nap today).  If she is fine with her shortest A time of the day being before bed, then shorten the pm nap - and in that case, you'll want to start extending her morning A time.  And remember that gradual extension of  A time is the key.  If she's used to doing 3.5 hrs, then I'd just add 10 - 15 a week.

hth
michelle

[hdgmom]

Thanks Michelle, I do think she needs a longer A time in the morning, she can't handle more than 4 hours of A time after her pm nap and she is more likely to sleep longer during her am nap than her pm nap. Since she won't sleep more than an hour at either nap, and since she wakes so early every day, usually between 5:30am and 6:00am, I didn't think she was ready for the 2to1 nap transition. Unfortunately, the earliest i can get her into bed at night is 7pm but we will try extending her am A time a little at a time (today was unusual) and keep her bedtime at 7pm and see what happens.

today was unusual because I had a dr. app to go to so my husband watched the kids. He didn't put her down for her nap at all so when I got home she had been up for over 6 hours and was beyond cranky. I got her into bed and I expected her to sleep for a while but she woke after 55 min crying then happy when I entered the room. I am so surprised that she didn't sleep longer, she was exhausted. I hope she will take a catnap before dinner since she woke at 1:25 but I doubt she will. Any thoughts on why she doesn't sleep longer than an hour?

Thanks again!

[deckchariot]

Sometimes it takes bubs awhile to figure out they can sleep longer when they're in the midst of the transition.   You may not think she's ready for it, but the EWs are actually one of the key signs that bubs are ready for it.  I suspect as you start pushing her morning  A time, that nap will lengthen on it's own.  And then you can do the late catnap - just make sure she's up by 3 if you want a 7pm bedtime.  If you don't mind a later bedtime, you can do your catnap even later and just keep that 4 hrs between it and bedtime.  Does that make sense?

[hdgmom]

Well unfortunately, dd doesn't think she needs a pm catnap. She didn't take a catnap Friday (woke from am nap 1:25pm, slept 1.25hrs) or Saturday (woke from am nap 12:05, slept 1.5hrs) and both days I put her down after 3 hours A time, 4hours A and 5 hours A time for catnap and everytime I put her down she just played happily despite looking very tired and getting fussy. Both days I gave up after the third try because it was almost 5 pm! and time for dinner.

She finallly did take a 35min catnap yesterday (Sunday) at 4:00pm on the second try, she woke from am nap at 11:00 after sleeping for 1 hour and woke in morning at 5:15am. After her pm catnap yeaterday she was cranky and crying so I put her to bed at the usuall time, 7:15pm, and she went right to sleep but she woke at 4:30am! this morning and played and babbled happily until I got her out of bet at 5:50am. I would love for her to be up by 3pm but since she resists taking a catnap at all (she looks tired and may even yawn once/twice after only 3 to 3.5hours A time but she won't go to sleep for a catnap, she just plays) I'm wondering, does she need a short nap in the am instead of along am nap?  and how short an am nap, 30min, 45 min? Any thoughts?

Each day she has woken up in the morning earlier and earlier, and plays and babbles happily without crying until I get her out of bed.  I know she is OT and I just can't seem to help her get out of the OT cycle. When her big bro, just turned 3, went through this transition it was a piece of cake but he usually slept til 7:30-8am every day and his naps were always long so he didn't need a catnap, just an earlier bedtime. I know this transition won't last forever but it seems like I am making it worse.

[deckchariot]

{{{{{{Hugs}}}}} the transition can be really hard.  If the long am/pm catnap doesn't seem to be working, absolutely switch and try short am/long pm.  In that case, you do not want to extend the am A time - keep her nap at the same time, you'll just wake her early from it.  Most mums cut back gradually.  So if her nap is usually around 1.5 hrs, cut back to 1.25 then 1, then 45 then 30 min - gradually - maybe just 15 min off a week or so.  Then at the same time, move the catnap back a bit too.  I know with that routine, most bubs are taking their first nap around 10/10:30, but if she's up really early, you may want to start her am nap even earlier (9:30/10) and then do her afternoon nap around 1:30/2.  Eventually, once the am nap is down to 30 min, you can either cut it out cold turkey and move the pm nap 30 min earlier (or earlier even than that if you need to).  Or you gradually push the am nap later and consollidate it with the pm nap.

There is life on the other side of the switch - trust me, you'll get there.  Since you're not really having much success with long am /short pm, I'd give the other direction a try and see how that works.

hth
michelle

[hdgmom]

Thank you so much for responding, I am just so unsure. Like I mentioned earlier, my son's transition was so easy but Hannah is changing her routine every day by  waking at the crack of dawn or taking a short am nap or skipping her pm catnap. If I try the short am nap plan, I'm not sure when to wake her because for the past 4 weeks her am naps have been only 50min, with a shorter nap or a longer nap thrown in occasionally. So, it seemed she was shortening her naps naturally and simply needing less daytime sleep. Today she slept for 40 min then went back to sleep for another 10 min. Interesting - she slept 50min. Is she sleeping 50 min because she's OT? Even though she won't fall asleep if I put her down earlier?

She seems to want at least 3.75 to 4 hours of A time in the am. I have tried putting her down for her nap earlier and she just plays with no sign of sleep. So since she's been extending her am A time naturally and likes 3.5 to 4 hours before bedtime, I thought the long am nap/pm catnap was the right plan. She is also more likely to extend her am nap on her own. I actually hadn't started extending her A time yet, I was going to keep it at 3.75-4 hrs for this next week or 2. But during this past week she has not wanted to take a pm nap of any kind if she has slept at least 50 min in the am. So, she's been extending her am A time and shortening her naps at the same time =  I'm unsure and very confused. 

Thanks again for your insight.

[hdgmom]

Just an update, I am just so amazed that she didn't sleep yesterday that I had to share. Yesterday was tough. She woke from her am nap at 9:40am and then didn't take another nap all day! I put her down when she started to look tired, at 1:00 and she played. I tried again at 2:20 and she cried and cried. My DH tried when he got home and she cried. As soon as we took out of her crib she was happy and wanted to get on the floor to play. Either she really doesn't need to take a second nap or I am completely missing her afternoon window. I see her yawn and her eyes get red so I get her into bed shortly thereafter but she plays. Last night she was cranky (didn't want her diaper changed, didn't want to get out of the bath) and easily cried when her big bro bothered her but she also played and played happily.She was asleep by 7 pm and slept straight through to 5:50 am and woke happy and babbling in her crib. I expected her to wake at 4am but she slept well and is very happy this morning.

If I shorten her am nap to get her to take a pm nap (hopefully a long one) I'm worried it will disrupt her nighttime sleep.

Thank you.
 

[deckchariot]

The key with the pm nap not disrupting her night sleep is to make sure she's got enough A time between that nap and bedtime.  So if you now she needs 4 hrs, that's key to keep that time between nap and bedtime, and it shouldn't disrupt bedtime.  I suspect today will come back to haunt you at some point....I'm sorry....that just is really low on the sleep end for what a bub her age needs.  Since the am nap is already fairly short, I'd cut it some more - do 30 min and wake her.  Then do 3-4 hrs of A time (see how she's doing) and do the pm nap.  It may take a few days for her to adjust to that, so see what happens and how she's responding.  The switch is really tricky, and I so wanted to pull my hair out during it!  But we made it, and I still have hair

[hdgmom]

Ok, it has been several weeks and in that time I started shortening her am nap to 40 min then down to 35 min and she was doing great. Sleeping 1.5 hrs at pm nap and waking at 6:40am in the morning, which is very good for her (she hasn't slept that late since she was 5 mo old).  Last week she started skipping her am nap and just taking a pm nap. But her pm nap is still 1.5 hours and now her EW are starting all over again and every now and then she wakes at night, so I am thinking that she is experiencing OT again. I have put her down for an am nap just about every day because she seems so tired but she just plays.

Do I need to tweak her routine? Or will she eventually extend her pm nap? She takes her nap between 12 and 12:30 and is up by 1:30/2pm, bedtime is 7pm and now she is waking at 5:30am. For a couple of days I have put her down for a nap at 11:30ish but then she woke after 60 min and didn't go back to sleep.

Thank you for your insights!!

[deckchariot]

what time are you offering that first nap?  I might try moving it just 15 min later (or even 30), but still limiting it to 30 min (or even just 20), and keep that pm nap at the same time (or you could shift it the same amount of time you shift the am nap).  Since you know she needs 4 hrs of A time between the pm nap and bed, if you want bedtime at 7, she just needs to be up by 3, so if you do her nap at 12:45 (because you shift the am nap), she should still be up by 3.  If that doesn't work, I'd skip doing the am nap, but do an early bedtime - we had to do that for a bit when Abby wasn't really ready for 1 nap, but wouldn't take two, and that helped keep the OT at bay and got rid of EW and NWs.

[hdgmom]

I had been offering her am nap 4 hrs after morning wake up, around 10 to 10:30. But she just doesn't seem tired yet and so she just plays. She seems to get tired about 5 hrs after morning wake up, which is about 11am. 7pm is the earliest I can do bedtime, I would rather do bedtime a little later but she wakes from her nap so early that by 7pm she's spent. She is usually asleep by 7:20-7:30. The past several days I have not offered an am nap, we have just done quiet time with some milk and a snack. Her attitude is fine until about noon so I have done nap then. Her naps are now short, less than an hour and I haven't found the magic formula to soothe her back to sleep when she wakes so quick. She wakes in the morning at 6am on the dot every day. I wish she would sleep 1.5to2 hrs and wake at 3pm instead of sleeping 50min and waking at 1:30, but I don't think I can push her nap to 12:45, that's 6.75 hrs of A time and she's already cranky at 12:00.

I have to laugh because she sleeps terrible at naptime but sleeps great all night (most of the time) but her 3 yr old big brother sleeps great at naptime and terrible at night.