8.5 mo early waking. needs help!

[koe2moe]

Awww thanks!  It helps to see it in B&W.  My head's just filled with numbers.  My back also hurts like hell.

Today is just sleep when he shows tired cues day.  Down again A2h10 or 15 coz he's yawning at lunch.    2nd nap only 35mins again.  If he wakes early, then around 2hA, take him down for a walk, walk until he would fall asleep!!!    

then 6:30 or 7 bed...

how's yours doing so far?

ADD:  I just discussed with DH.  He said the last 2 mornings, just couldn't get DS to last longer than 2h.  couldn't play nice and coordination's not there..  (very cute to watch, though haha)  but if we get him to bed early, should at least get some more sleep in the night.  I guess that's the idea, right?

[koe2moe]

A2H15  S1H10 
Woke up at 2:30.  If I put him to bed A3h30, he goes to bed at 6, he's bound to wake at 4:30???

[koe2moe]

Here's today:

5:25 wake up  A 2h10
7:35 S 35mins  (or it could be A2h15  S30mins)
8:10 A 2h20
10:30 S 35mins
11:05 A 2h15
13:20 S 1h10
14:30 A 2h50 (4h05 till bedtime with a 30mins CN)
17:20 S 30mins
17:50 A 1h45
19:35 S

I agree that last A should be around 3h ultimately (until the next change ) coz even after the CN, during dinner at 18:15, he's rubbing eyes.  Today overall he ate a whole 100g less solids!  I hope he won't wake for hunger!!! 

Will try the 3hr A times all day then.  What if he's still super tired at around 2h for 1st A?  And if he only gets crap naps like 2x30mins or even 2x 1hr naps, then bedtime would become.. oh wait... last A is 4h??  A from 3 to 7 or 7:30.  If crap naps, what should I do?  coz he would be OT even by dinner time.   

I'm tempted to just take him out all day and when he's tired, he would sleep in the stroller :p  But I haven't tried feeding him solids outside of home yet!!!  Just logistics issues.. I'm not too keen on...  hmmm  Any tips?

[*Liz*]

If you need to squeeze in an extra catnap like you did today  .

When you do the A extension keep him gently occupied. When they are crawling about they tend to get very tired and miserable easily, but sat on someones knee looking at books, or in the buggy they notice it less.

I'm pretty convinced those first bad naps are actually UT TBH.

[koe2moe]

Yeah I agree totally.  It's like too tired to stay up but UT for good nap.  Will work on maintaining the first A 3hrs.  If it fails, then just sneak in CN to avoid too bad OT for bed.  If the CN is only very shortly before bedtime, would that affect night sleep?  

Would it be wise to set bed time to 6-6:30?  Since he's been waking at 5-ish for so long.  Of course, I haven't tried because I don't want 4-ish wake up    

How's your LO's day?

[*Liz*]

Yes I bedtime within 13 hrs of wake up time should help reverse some of the OT.

CN's too close to bedtime can have an impact in some los but I think it would be wise to squeeze one in at the moment.

J was good today - fell asleep in the car at 10am and I transferred him to the car and he slept for 2 hrs, then he had a 40 min pm nap and early bedtime. So I'm hoping that will catch us up from the last few days.

[koe2moe]

Good morning

4:30 start again.  We let DS try to resettle himself but after 40 mins he escalated.  It was soiled diaper!!!  1st A 3h and 1st S 1h30!!!!!  YAY...  I think we are on the right track now.  Still unsure abt bedtime.  hmmm

hope your day will be good!

[*Liz*]

I think we should just try to keep to 3hrs A and see how that affects him before trying to fingure out the final A as well.

So pleased for the good first nap!!

[koe2moe]

Yeah especially since he stirred at 45mins and we ignored, and he went back to sleep.  2nd A 3h40mins.  My bad..  S 1h10 and he stirred at 30mins and at 45mins.  Both times ignored and back to sleep.  So it's OT.  At least i learned something hehe

13:50 A...  just don't think he can get out of OT if there's no more nap inbetween but the CN yesterday, I think caused the EW...  we seem to be stuck in this vicious circle...  How to get out?

[koe2moe]

I THINK I can finally give an update!

4:30 wake up A 3h
7:30 S 1h30
9:00 A 3h40
12:40 S 1h10  (stirring at 30 and 45mins, I need to put him down 10 mins earlier.)
13:50 A 5h25 
19:15 S  

We took him for a walk in the pram hoping to get a CN in, after 1h, he just wouldn't sleep.  Got home to give him dinner at 5:15, ate alright, but rubbing eyes, etc... so decided just to put him to bed after we bathe him.  Almost fell asleep from his last bottle, put him in his bed, the usual bedtime routine, at 18:10!!!  We just want to get sleep in him and he didn't look like he could last 5 more mins.  He just couldn't settle to sleep!!!  Cried a lot.  We haven't had to interfere with his night sleep for weeks now.  I gave homeopathic drops in case it's teething because his bottle does look very red from the morning.  Still cried a lot. PU/PD didn't help.  Finally he calmed down and I could sneak out of his room.  

He closed eyes probably at 19:10 and then jolted and cried.  I didn't go in.  Then silence.  

DH is already in bed.  Utterly exhausted and prepared for tomorrow in case 3:30 or 4 wake up!!  

Is there a way out?!  

[*Liz*]

OT loops end - they ALWAYS do. He was just so OT that it took him ages to settle.

Aim for the same tomorrow - 3hrs A all the way through. We need to get rid of that ridiculously long awake time before bed.

You won't need a CN if you get 2 decent naps on 3 hrs A - but to get out of this OT lopp and set a sensible bedtime it would be great to squeeze one in.

So something like
Wake up 5am
Nap 1 8am awake 9.30ish
Nap 2 12.30 - 2-2.30ish
CN 4.40pm for 40 mins
Bedtime 7pm

If we can squeeze a CN in for a day or so and your lo handles 3hrs A it will soon be gone.

[koe2moe]

Thank you Liz!  It's good to hear it from you that it will end.  When I was doing PU/PD, DS was crying so hard like he just would never settle. 

The CN is hard to get in.  We failed today.  I also think that if the CN is too close to bedtime, it affects the night sleep but I just can't get it in earlier. 

But then tomorrow is another day.  Thanks so much for your time.  I'll keep my heads up!  And your day??

[*Liz*]

My lo refused his pm nap again, and went to bed OT again, so it is likely and EW for me too.

PU/PD can be tough when they are OT. I often just cuddle and use shh/ptt - anything to get him down as peacefully as possible. But J is totally independent to sleep so I don't worry about that as much as others.

Just stick to 3hrs tomorrow.

Perhaps AP the CN?

[koe2moe]

Good tip about the cuddle and shh/pat..  I think I ended up doing something similar.  I dangled my arm down to the bed and told him it's bed time.  But I couldn't make eye contact.  Gradually he calmed down a bit, sometimes holding onto my hand or arm.  I could sneak out at one point and went back in when he started crying again.  But then he's already ready to lay down. 

I honestly don't know how to AP to sleep.  He only sleeps in his bed.  Taking a walk is not a guarantee these days.  Perhaps we'll try a car ride tomorrow if we are desperate.  I'm more confident to get a CN in around A3h, any earlier will be just a lot of wasted effort   Or like u said, just keep doing it until we get 2 good naps.   Would shortening CN be useful if I can't get it earlier?  Like to make sure it's no more than 15 mins?!?!  It feels so cruel...

[*Liz*]

My lo is the same - will only go to sleep after his normal A. Some babies will only sleep when properly tired.

But you would be suprised how little A your lo will handle after a 30 min CN - remembering they did the full A before. So you could try a 30 min CN and then then asleep 1h 30 later.