Author Topic: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!  (Read 16353 times)

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Offline koe2moe

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #75 on: September 16, 2009, 05:50:18 am »
LO slept almost 11h last night.  He's really not showing tired cues these days unless we assumed he is and start winding down!  His mantra cries, I discovered, have become hysteric.  Probably due to XOT.  It's hard to just listen to all that screaming/crying.  I let him be and he started and stopped.  Phew... 

LO lost quite a bit of weight but got much taller!!! :D 

some hugz for you and your LO



Offline *Liz*

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #76 on: September 16, 2009, 18:35:37 pm »
Yes - I get a lot of SCREAMING if J gets REALLY OT. I think you do have to hang back a little and just give them the space to settle and calm themselves to sleep.

I had a phase like that with J as well - no tired signs until I started winddown and was putting him in his sleeping bag. Then is was all rubbing eyes and VERY tired all of a sudden. I think when they get busier and are mobile and exploring they don't notice they are tired until it is WAY too late.

Offline koe2moe

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #77 on: September 19, 2009, 20:00:17 pm »
Hey Liz

I'm so exhausted that i couldn't even type out the latest routine.  BUT... it just hit me today that DS must be way more spirited than I thought!!!!  Spirited textbook, rather than TS!!!!!!!!!!  *DOH*

His screaming must be to do with OS!!!!!!!  I just wonder what might be a good loooooooong wind down routine?!  Our night bedtime routine is pretty good.  DS is now 9months and it's just so hard to look at the books for longer than 2 mins :P  DS would just fuss, arch his back.  Or should I start a new post and which board should I post in?  I did a search but couldn't find anything relevant. 

in short... today was 5:30am 3 x 30mins naps with screaming, then grandma's 70th b'day party (so we had to be there) and we didn't get home till 8:30pm (45min drive and only dropped off 5 mins before we stopped the engine!!!!)   A times were too long either so I was just sooo helpless.  I felt so useless.

Have a great sunday!




Offline *Liz*

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2009, 09:16:54 am »
((hugs)) Koe.

Hang in there - you will get back on track soon.

Have you checked out the spirited supporth thread at the top of the page? Couple of mummies (inc me!) talking about winddown routine and napping with their spirited los - might help?

If you want some advice about activity and entertaining I would try the Activity Board. I suspect some of his fussing is OT though.

Sorry for late reply - I had to do the weekend shift!!

Offline koe2moe

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2009, 18:56:36 pm »
Liz, thanks for the hugz and reply.

I really hope so.  Just so tired and don't even have the energy to take DS out for a walk...

I will check on the support thread, but it's just so long, i need to have some more energy and sleep before doing it. 

I want to show u the routine of the day before we left (he had 11.5h sleep).  I want to see what you think of them

2/Sep (the day before we had to fly so I didn't care anymore what time DS might wake)

5:35  wake up A 3h05
8:40  S 1h05
9:45  A 3h15
13:00  S 1h45
14:45  A 4h35
19:20  S  11h30 

I was sooo surprised that with that long last A, he slept longer.  I thought he would be OT.  He had 2 good naps!  I just wonder if i should use this as a ref to work towards.  But if so, hopefully wake up time will be later, then how can I always manage a long last A without putting him bed later and later?!  DS is now 20 days older, perhaps need even more A time?!  What do you think?




Offline *Liz*

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2009, 20:16:26 pm »
I would use that as a starting point. 20 days is not that long and with OT on board I doubt he needs the A's pushing much.

Does look like he prefers a long A to bed doesn't it? A lot of los are like that.

The stuff about spirited sleep is on the last page or so - no need to read it all  :).

Offline koe2moe

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2009, 21:00:59 pm »
oh dear.. keep having problems with posting.  i lost my original post :(

anyway.. just tell me one more time, to let DS scream till he resettles himself?  it's just toooooo heart wrenching.  he went down to sleep very nice and calm at 7:25 tonight.  Just now at 9:45, screamed his lungs out.  I went in to check if all was ok.  It was, so i sat there again (don't ask my why i did it again).  Of course, he couldn't really fall asleep because he would look up, get back up, scream all over again :'(  just too hard.  what shall i do?! 

i tried 2h A time, following his tired cues, still couldn't get more than 30 mins 1st nap. 



Offline *Liz*

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #82 on: September 22, 2009, 19:44:44 pm »
No you don't let him scream until he resettles.

If this happens to us I go in and pick him up and calm him down, and then put him straight back in. I often walk out then as his cries are mantra. If they are 'mummy I need you cries' you should stay in the room - even in a chair where he can't see you but can only hear you reassuring him if that works better. If they are mantra cries then leave him to self settle. If you interfere with a mantra you actually disrupt the settling process.

Lately I have found sitting next to the crib in the dark with my hand on the mattress is better as he can hold my hand if he wants (but I remove it when he is calm and falling asleep) or he can ignore me but he knows I am there.

Can you recognise your los mantra cry?

Offline koe2moe

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2009, 09:32:55 am »
To be honest, I don't think I can tell anymore.  I get so confused.  I often end up in tears myself.  But I read your reply this morning and realised that probably I let him cry/scream too much on his own since HK.  Because my presence seems to keep him from falling asleep.  I did what you do, too.  I didn't say anything, just laid my hand down and he could hold when he wanted to.  But when he was settling to sleep, he would look up to check if i was there, started moving, holding onto my arms and wouldn't settle anymore.  What would you do at this stage? 

What I did was, to say to him, it's sleepy time now, see you when you wake up.  Then I got up and left him.  He would start screaming again but within a minute, he would calm down and settle and drift off.  Was it letting him cry?  There were times also after we're back, in the middle of his nap, he just woke and screamed in a rythmic way and 2-4 mins, he resettled to sleep.  So I started getting confused as to what i should be doing.  2 nights ago, he woke at 23:15 and I went to him right away.  It's like the episode in the paragraph above, so I had to leave him.  Then he went back to sleep within 10 mins.

just now for his 1st nap.  He started something like his usual old mantra, not really crying.  Then he went quiet.  half a minute later, he started with louder cry, and then kind of his old mantra.  there were about 3, 4 rounds of this and he suddenly started again and cried and then screamed all within 5 secs and I went in.  (This is after reading your reply.)  Held him and he was so tired, he wanted to fall asleep in my arms but then he started arching (so i remember Tracy said no fighting.) so I laid him down.  It's just one big fit in the bed.  Pushing with legs, arching, etc.  in the end, PD worked again.  The whole process, from the moment I put him in his bed till he fell asleep was 55mins.  :'(

Do you have I have breached his trust already?!  oh..  yesterday:

6:20 am   wake up A 2h25
8:45        S  45mins (first time since 20 days no crying when he woke)
9:30        A  3h
12:30      S  40 mins (crying)
13:08      A  3h50
17:00      S  (we coaxed some AP sleep in DS)  1h15
18:15      A  1h20
19:35      S  12h

YEAH, he woke at 7:40 this morning!!  But this morning he's not his usual happy self.  Cranky, so we tried to follow his tired cues and put him to bed at 10 but in the end, he finally slept at almost 11am. 

I also removed the night light in his room since 2 nights ago and perhaps that caused the night screaming?  but perhaps it helps with the morning wakings to resettle himself.  The last mornings, he probably out of habit, screamed at 5:35.  This morning, he only turned and made tiny sounds and went back to sleep. 

I keep waking at 5.  HW for sure... :(  Not sure how to get out of it yet...  I started reading the BW for Toddler.  I redid the questionaire and DS is still textbook with a bit of spiritedness.  So confused. 



Offline *Liz*

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2009, 18:49:31 pm »
If he is screaming for 1-2 mins and then self settling then it is not CIO. That is his mantra cry. That is why it takes much longer if you go to him. He is not crying for you if he can put himself too sleep in a few mins without you. It is NORMAL for babies to cry sometimes before they go to sleep. It is also normal for them to sometimes wake and cry out for a few when they transition sleep cycles - especially if a bit OT.

The thing is a mantra cry is a type of cry. It is not really soft fussy settling noises. That is the mistake I made with J was well. I thought for ages I knew what his mantra was, but I didn't  :(.

I would always hang back for a few and see if it is escalating or not. Give him time. If the crying is stop start stop start I would hang back as well as he is trying to self settle.

So no I don't think you have breached his trust. I think he is just getting older and you are no longer able to 'put' him straight to sleep anymore, and that means there will be a bit more crying.

I have found J better at resettling with a nightlight since he got older. More likely to manage by himself.

((hugs)) Koe - you will find that groove again soon.

Offline jess, lukeys_mom

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #85 on: September 24, 2009, 08:35:31 am »
Hi koe2moe,

I knew you had a thread here too so I figured I'd read along as it has your routines and details, maybe more helpful than a separate thread in GS. I have skimmed the last 2 pages so apologies if anything I say repeats something from earlier in your thread.

Regarding the crying, I agree with Liz too and don't think you let him CIO. If the crying is escalating then I would go in, but if it is dying off or stopping/starting then I would give it some time.

Dylan does something very similar to your lo. In fact, often at the 40 min mark with some of his naps, he will scream in the most screeching, piercing way, the kind of cry that makes you bolt into his room. It last one minute, and he's out again. I was bolting into his room every time and grabbing him (and he'd be startled and then crying when I got him up). Then one day I was covered in POO and dealing with Luke who was up on the changing table, and I literally could not go into Dylan's room. Frantically washing myself and Luke, the piercing scremas were over in 1 min, followed by 1 min of mantra, and then another hour of sleep. He has since done that for at least one nap a day. His day care has even remarked to me that he has a crazy piercing cry during sleep, but they asked if it was ok to not get him right away as they think this is his way of resettling. I have never noticed it happen at night though so if it did I would go in right away, it just seems to be his unique pattern for naps at the moment. HTH a little??

For that wake up time - and since I know you are recovering from jet lag - maybe it's a good idea to control the wake up time. In other words, make a realistic wake up time (6.30? 7?) for every day and wake him if he is not up then. It used to pain me to do this but it really does seem to help with the body clock. We always do it when getting over jet lag especially.

Hugs - you will get there!!!
Mom to Luke (2007) and Dylan (2009)

Offline koe2moe

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #86 on: September 24, 2009, 15:45:10 pm »
Liz and Jess

Thanks for the reassurance!  It helps a lot to know that I haven't breached the trust and screaming can be normal.  It was true that out of all those times I let him scream/cry, he ended up sleeping.  I should hang back a little, just in case.  I guess one, two minutes of crying isn't all that bad.  It just hurts at the time. 

This morning DS woke at 7:10am, though naps were bad.  1 x 1h and 1x 30mins.  DH also reminded me to relax and try to have more fun and laugh more.  It's been tough for DH, too. 

Thanks for your time and hugs.  I'm determined to RELAX! :P 




Offline *Liz*

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #87 on: September 24, 2009, 18:00:33 pm »
Koe - if 1-3 mins of crying settles him straight off to sleep it is a mantra cry - and is SOOOO much better than 45 mins of screaming with you in the room.

Relaxing is a GOOD plan - and sometimes with a relaxed approach a LO will actually start to give away some trade secrets and form a bit of their own pattern  ;).

Offline koe2moe

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #88 on: September 24, 2009, 18:25:16 pm »
What about 10 mins?  One time I let him scream, 10 mins.. back to sleep???

Actually you are right or perhaps like Jess said in the getting back on track thread.  DS seems to want to transition to 1 nap!!!!!!!!!!!  Oh man...  He went on for 1st A past 3 h and really was playing nicely.  The new *relaxed* me told me to watch him closely.  He only started to lose a bit of coordination at 3h45, so I started winding down.  He only slept 45 mins, though.  Coaxing got 10 more mins in him and 20 mins of low down time.  Then he went down for a nap because he totally lost it but it was very late, 5:45 - 6:30.  Wouldn't eat dinner, big bottle before bed, slept very quietly from 7:40.  We'll see what happens tomorrow.

I saw your thread.... i know OT monster is horrid but then EW is worse :P  We're going to stick with 7:30 bed time.. at least one thing is fixed for DS.  I think changing everyday isn't good.  But of coz, every baby is different.



Offline koe2moe

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Re: 8.5 mo early waking. needs help!
« Reply #89 on: September 25, 2009, 16:12:51 pm »
I let DS cry 10 mins.  He went silent for 2 mins and then started again and escalated.  30min nap!  EW @ 5:18 this morning. 

So officially EW monster is back but is it for the 2-1 transition, I'm not sure as we had 3 x 30mins naps today :'(  DS was cranky all morning, all day until after the third nap, he's happy!  Eating way more than normal???  Can there be GS at 9-10mos?!   He's teething also, he let drool just run down his chin nonstop!