8.5 mo early waking. needs help!

[*Liz*]

10 mins of mantra crying is not CIO - don't worry  .

TBH I would try and stretch the A's and stick to 2 naps. 3 naps tends not to help at this age.

And YES there is a 9 month GS!!

[koe2moe]

thanks!!! and phew!!!  especially about NOT CIO

oh my...  i tried to search for GS and couldn't find anything relevant!  How many more of such GS are there?  DS was very very upset while I was preparing lunch.  I thought it's coz I left him in the playpen.  Until I saw how he gulped down his food, I realised it was HUNGER!! 

The 3 naps were just because he was dead tired and could only sleep 30 mins.  1st A was only 2 h and he went down very well but woke at 30mins grrr... 

As I said I'm trying to *relax* but with 5:18 wake up.... instead of forcing him to nap, i wait for his cues.  I thought with such early waking and now knowing that he CAN sleep 12h, he couldn't handle long A.  He kept falling on hard surfaces whole day and kept crying.  He's just tired.  Poor thing. 

I still hold onto your slogan   tomorrow is another day

[koe2moe]

Updates of the last 2 days... 

27 Sep
5:50 wake up A 3h40 (19:30 sleep so 10h20)
9:30 S  2h (APOP  sleeping with DH)
11:30 A 3h30
15:00 S 1h (sleep in pram - this is the third time ever he sleeps more than 30mins in pram)
16:00 A 3h45
19:45 S 9h25

28 Sep
5:18 wake up A 1h12  (he was so tired, we took him to our bed but he got hungry so we gave him bottle and he settled right away and fell asleep)
6:20 E bottle
6:30 S 1h40
8:10 A 3h40
11:50  S 25mins  (cried and screamed, took ages to fall asleep and then started crying probably at 20 or 25mins)
12:15  A 3h25
15:40  S 20mins (cried and screamed and almost couldn't wake up from it when I stepped in.)
16:00  A 3h30
19:30  S

I just wonder what 20 or 25 mins naps mean???  he cried and screamed so hard.  AP could be a reason when we kept having him in our bed but last days he didn't cry when we put him down to nap in his own bed.  He does seem much more hungry than normal and I tried and tried to get him to eat more.  Not sure if it's enough extra. 

I'm honestly not sure what to do.  DH just keeps telling me not to try too hard about naps as DS is crying nuts and i end up crying...  Sleeping pills aren't helping with my sleep... 

[sherry lynn]

Where about do you think he is with his "normal" A times right now?

Do you think 3h30m is the right A time for him? Or 3h45? Have you read any of the links about sleep going wonky around this age? I'll look back  a few pages. And I'll post them if they haven't been posted already.

[sherry lynn]

After looking back at you posts I'm going to wait on that link.

I just browsed kind of quickly and I think I noticed a pattern.

Your son seems to either have really good nights and then wonky naps, or a wonky night and good naps. Does this seem true?

Do you know what his sleep total for a day is. For us it was around 13 hours for a very very long time. But it took me a long time to realize that. Maybe take a few days or a week and add up the night time sleep and the day time sleep and see what your average total is?

That might help you figure out what is going one.

Just a thought

[koe2moe]

Hey Sherry Lynn

I honestly haven't got a clue or I've been too tired to be able to think.  But I did take a look at when he's started having EW.  Perhaps I've been looking at the wrong things.  It's from when DS refused to take DF back around 6.5 or almost 7mo, and of course of starting solids and not much intake.  When he was taking DF, he would sleep pretty much from 7:30pm till 7 or 7:30am.  DF usually done in his sleep.  Does that count as STTN?  He did however have dummy as prop and we weaned it off 7.5mo.  Then he slept from 7:30 till 5:30-6.   With almost no NWs.  Is it possible that DS is only ready to sleep 10 or 10.5 h?  But there were a few nights he slept through to past 7am, but perhaps coz it was super late nights.  

A times.  Please see the following quote

2/Sep (the day before we had to fly so I didn't care anymore what time DS might wake)

5:35  wake up A 3h05
8:40  S 1h05
9:45  A 3h15
13:00  S 1h45
14:45  A 4h35
19:20  S  11h30  

I was sooo surprised that with that long last A, he slept longer.  I thought he would be OT.  He had 2 good naps!  I just wonder if i should use this as a ref to work towards.  But if so, hopefully wake up time will be later, then how can I always manage a long last A without putting him bed later and later?!  DS is now 20 days older, perhaps need even more A time?!  What do you think?

But I got the feeling that he needs longer A already.  Just gut instinct.  Tomorrow DH and I have decided no more bringing DS to bed.  When he wakes at 5, then start the day at 5 and start getting things straight.  

Any suggestions will be appreciated.  Thanks

(Adding this as you just added another post, thanks.)  I'll add up the total sleep over a period to see.  It's mostly true about naps and night sleep but it does seem to have good days with good naps and good night sleep.  See the quote.  He usually has bad naps and bad night sleep.  I'm v tired now and can't really look at the screen.  I'll sleep on that thought.  Thanks for checking

[sherry lynn]

koe2moe  - I think that is a great plan. It will be really good to figure out if you have a prop problem in the morning regarding the EW.
Try not to stress yourself out too much. I hope you get a good nights sleep.

[koe2moe]

DS woke at 6am!! YAY!!  DH got him up to start the day.  1st A 3h but he's been banging his cot for 10mins, though not crying.  See if he will take his nap.

From the good day I quoted to show you, he seems to be able to sleep quite long.  2h50 day and 11h30 night.  14h20 total.     But on average, he's mostly getting 2h day sleep and 10 - 10h30 night sleep.  

I did get some sleep because the sleeping pill worked.  DH let me sleep in also.  

As for the plan, we'll probably try not to coax a CN even when DS gets crappy naps.  Just really no idea what to do really.  
ADD:  refused the am nap but not crying, just wide awake.  Took him out for a walk and napped 30mins in the pram at 1st A 5h!  Quite happy self.  We'll see the rest of the day.

[sherry lynn]

I was suggesting to take an average because sometimes my DS will have a super awesome sleep day - all try to replicate that and it doesn't work. The reason is (I think) is that he only does this every so often to catch up on some really cruddy days. Does that make sense?

I hope he takes a good PM nap for you.

I will post that link after the morning you've had

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=41952.0

[koe2moe]

Thanks for those links. I will read them through. 

PM nap?!  What pm nap?   1x25mins nap in his cot and 1x25mins in the pram   

today:
6:10  wake up A 5h!!!
9:10  (failed attempt to nap PU/PD nothing worked)
11:05  S  30mins!! 
11:35  A  3h30
14:35  S  25mins
15:00  A  2h15
17:15  S  25mins
17:40  A  2h05
19:45  S

The morning period DS wasn't playing nice at all.  After the failed nap, he was actually quite happy and playing nice and even listened to my "no touching curtains" and let go and looked at me! 

It's true that those good sleep nights might be just catching up big time.  I'll try and get some averages. 

Perhaps tomorrow we'll try aiming 1st A around 3h30 to 4h.  But if he refused to nap, then just get on with it.  It's really tricky because he was showing tired cues!  I also reread the section about sleep between 9months to 1 yr.  It's nice to know that it might not be caused by us.  Just this time it's lots of changes in LOs.

Hope you have a good day!

[*Liz*]

Yeah - I think that first A of 3hrs is too short and he fought it as he was UT but by the time he got around to taking it he was OT already, and the rest of the day followed on from there.

I have often been thrown by a good nights sleep - if they have slept really well they really are the days the A needs stretching.

I think 3h 30 sounds like a good plan.

J gives no real tired signs anymore TBH - and those he does have are very misleading and mixed up with frustration and boredom.

Some kids just have a TERRIBLE time with the 2-1 I think, and those that are prone to OT napping, and EWs are often those babies.

[sherry lynn]

It's not you at all. It just can really be a tricky time. I had plenty of tricky days like those around that age. Except there was no way I would have been able to get a 3rd nap out of him at that point. Even with APing. Just be really cautious about continuing to offer a 3rd nap at his age. I found that if for some reason he did have a 3rd nap after about 9 months it lead to EW.

The only other thing I have to suggest to to remember to decrease the A time after a 30 min nap. 3h30m is way too long after a 30 min OT nap.

[koe2moe]

LizJ thanks so much.  I also think he screams the hardest when he's UT which was what I discovered just a few days ago.  Boredom causes yawns here, too!!  Actually... whenever DS eats, he's showing tonnes of tired cues!!!  Is that common??

Sherry Lynn, thanks.   It's great to know that.  3rd nap today was just him falling asleep during my errands   I was worried but then he had no sleep almost at all today.  I was worried that it was so late and so close to bedtime.  It was actually A 3h not 3h30 coz I couldn't even do simple arithmetic anymore     I was aiming at 2h30 but then it took him forever to settle down.  sigh...

tomorrow is YET another day..  time to sleep

good day and night to both of you

[sherry lynn]

I hope you get another good nights sleep. At about this age, maybe 12 months. I stopped counting how long it took him to fall asleep. I just put him down at the usual A time and let him work out what ever was going to happen. It helped with the "control issues" KWIM? You can only do so much. He has to do the rest

[koe2moe]

The usual 5:30am cries!  But he was still crying when I picked him up, so gave him his bottle and then put him back to bed.  He was whining, crying on and off.   I didn't dare go to him.  After half an hour, he's back to sleep.  I guess it was correct not to interfere.  He just woke up after 1 sleep cycle at 7:10am.  It's pretty good start.  I tried so hard to get more food in him already.  He's eating so much that I can see his tummy sticking way out. 

One thing I'm not sure (on top of everything else that I'm not sure of) is that do I add a whole bottle amount to the day's intake?!  Coz usually I just gave the bottle, so it's like an earlier feed but during the day he takes more solids.  He's gaining weight by the hour!  Can this be the reason why he couldn't sleep longer because the food just doesn't last till 7am?