Author Topic: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*  (Read 3344 times)

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Offline lilisuze

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MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« on: August 26, 2009, 09:20:01 am »
hi, my lo is 10.5 months and he has pretty much stopped being sick now. woop!!!

I think it is time to start re-intoducing milk products - he is currently on soy milk and dairy free foods. Apart from small bits of philadelphia cheese, which he has been tolerating for about 8 weeks.

About 3 weeks ago I tried him with a yogurt with disasterous results, he was sick every day for about 4 days, within 20 mins of eating it! I did half a yogurt the first day (small fromage frais ones!) and then a full one the next day and it must have been too much.

This morning (much to DH's disgust - he thinks we should just leave it be - think he would be happy to have DS on dairy free for an easy life forever! however, he's not the one who has to prepare the food and check all labels!) i have given DS some milk in a beaker. Just ordinary cows milk on advice of the HV to ensure the last reaction was not caused by any flavourings or preservatives. He drank about 20 mls with his breakfast.

Its now 10.15 and he has not yet been sick  ;D

We are going away on sunday and leaving DS with the inlaws, and he goes to nursery at the end of the week so I cant really do anything else this week.

My main question is:

Do i continue to expose him to very small amounts of milk product every so often and build this up VERY slowly over time? This seems like the most obvious idea to me, to give him a few sips of milk every few days and leave him on the soy and dairy free food?

Or should I fill him up with some milk product to try and create a reaction each time?

TIA

Lili xx
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 17:45:20 pm by lilisuze »
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Offline LizzieN

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2009, 12:30:27 pm »
I would definately reintroduce slowly.  Think I read somewhere that after you have been off dairy for a while your body can take some time to re-adjust to it...Also if your LO is going to have a reaction to it, better that there is only a small amount of allergen to get out of his body than a whole heap...

Good luck Lili, I hope it all goes well for you and your LO
xxLizzie


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Offline Spectra

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 17:02:30 pm »
Totally agree with Lizzie.  Small amounts are better.  If he's tolerating the cow's milk fine I'd keep at it, but stop if he has a bad reaction.  It's not so much about building a resistance as it is allowing his body to outgrow the intolerance, if possible.  After about 6-7 months of my son being off milk/soy I was able to re-introduce it without problems.  Plus it was nice to have him pain/discomfort free for that time being.  Thankfully he out-grew it, like most do.
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Offline lilisuze

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2009, 06:19:09 am »
He has been on soy milk now for 4 months, but didnt really start until the problems with milk were beyond a joke! So i will continue with a few sips of milk every few days and then maybe try 2 days together before trying half a yogurt!!!

Thanks for your advice
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Offline lilisuze

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2009, 07:04:50 am »
ok this is how things are, and i have no idea what to do. I have relaxed the rules on products with milk in (ie biscuits/cheese etc) and i thought things were ok. He has teethed again this week, completing the 8 in front. We have been having NW's with squeaking/screaming rather than the usual wake up to chatter for the last 10 days.

Also his bowel movements have gone more difficult to get out this week, and i am wondering if the NW's and poo issues are to do with him having MPI problems and not teething.

When he was on baby formula milk he was screaming a lot and very constipated. NW's were about 10 per night. currently the NW are about twice per night.
 
What do you think i should do to confirm if this is teething or MPI?

My issue is:

if i stop the milk and the NW's stop it could be thats the problem BUT it could also be that the teething has stopped!!
if i keep on the milk products, this could go on for ages and the little guy will be uncomfortable.

Please help

Lili xx
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Offline lilisuze

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2009, 17:45:44 pm »
bumping
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Offline Mashi

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2009, 18:15:30 pm »
Hmmmmm scratching my head a bit and may ramble...

Went through this same thing with our soy introduction - sudden screaming NWs and constipation, both were problems he had when he went form milk formula to soy formula.  I think I posted here asking for advice so will try to find that thread for you and link it. 

One thing I would do first is a routine check and brainstorm  ANY other reasons you can think of for NWs?  Is he sleeping well in the day?  Separation anxiety?  Canines coming in, other tooth shifting perhaps occuring?  I found that after the front teeth it's been difficult to get a good look in DS's mouth to see the next ones coming in as he just does not want me looking.  But, it would not be strange for him to be continuously teething at this stage - to cut some and then have more moving up and sitting at the surface very shortly after. And, although my DS cut his first teeth quickly and painlessly, the more he teeths (the larger the teeth are) the more pain he is in, and the longer they are taking.  Are topical gels and/or pain meds having any effect?

Poop - I would be concerned with the constipation as my paed always told me that constipation was more worrisome than diarrhea.  But, when you say constipated, do you mean he is really straining to go, and/or not going regularly enough? Or is his stool just more "formed" than it used to be? As they get on more solids and more grains, poop starts to look a bit more "adult like" and is not as soft and smushy as baby poop was.  Can you identify any other cause of constipation - not enough fruit or fibre, any other changes in things, etc?

I know how hard it is to go back on milk after you've started - once we started milk I was determined that DS was going to have to be VERY sick for me to consider dairy-free again. Fortunately, we didn't have any major problems - a massive run of diarrhea and a week or so of NWs and lots of screaming, which I was able to confirm was teething. And I'm pretty sure we did it by just sticking with things, mainly out of my stubbornness. 

I think that with stopping the milk, you may not see an immediate change, IF that is the problem.  It will take a while (few days to few weeks?) to get the milk out of his system, and so it may or may not be clear if that was the issue or not.   Just at thought.

How old is he now - I can't see the date on your OP to do the math, but I think I remember your OP was not that long ago..so he is nearing a year now?  Generally docs do like to do a milk challenge at about 12 months or so - are you getting any support in this from a GP/paed/dietician, aside from your HV? HVs tend not to be really clued up on this in my experience (assuming you are in UK).  We had a hospital paed who saw us when DS was diagnosed MSPI and a hospital dietician as well.  In my area, all babies were sent to hospital for a milk challenge with the dietician at 12 months, where they were given bits of milk over the course of the day to watch for reactions. (We moved abroad before we were able to do this so I can't provide more detail than that...other than that here in Germany they do it as well, but I had done my own milk challenge before speaking to our new paed here about it).   So, you should be able to at least get your GP to refer you to someone who will do a milk challenge for you and might give you more support and advice than your HV. 

Can you request allergy testing?  Allergy testing is not 100% as sometimes the problem with milk is an intolerance, which won't show up on an allergy test. (Allergy is an immune system reaction, intolerance is a bowel reaction, most doctors won't bother differentiating between the two as the point is that dairy free is still the only option). So, as much as allergy testing may not be 100%, if you get a postive, then it's accurate. If you get a negative then....well, there's a good chance it is negative but not 100%.   I'm not sure if milk allergy tests can be done by scratch or hair testing in your area, here in Germany my own paed can not offer that way of testing, she is only able to do blood tests. 

I spose that's all, really, and don't think I have been of much help.  I suppose my last final thought is that if he is older than one, I would give it another week or so on the milk and see if you can lose the NWs or find another reason for them.  If the constipation is quite bad, then I would go off of the milk and see if it improves. 

?????? Sorry if I am not helpful, just trying to think out loud for you!

mashi

Offline lilisuze

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2009, 06:36:49 am »
thanks. most of your thoughts have been mine too!

Right: possible reasons for NW's : Sep Anx is possible as he is starting to want to be held to resettle and often likes to hold my hand as he sleeps.
                                              Teething is possible as his molar area is hard (but as you say cant see a dam thing! He is biting A LOT on everything he can find, but as the NW's have been 10 days long I wonder about this. Can this be teething?
                                               Day sleep is still good. Goes down fine twice a day for about 1hr 20 each time. last sleep he wakes at about 4.

Pooping, its just sometimes that he is finding it hard to go. Its nowhere near what it was in may (where he was trying hard and we had just pellets for days at a time) but i dont want that back!

We are under a pead GI but only open appointment. We have not seen a dietician, and I am quite sure that dairy is the only issue. The HV seems very good, has worked with MPI kids before and seems to have some good ideas for reintroduction. She is on holiday now for 3 weeks so no help there really. If things dont improve i could phone the paed and get an appt with them to discuss.

Can you see a reason for the NW's? and if its any of the above reasons in my mini brainstorm what do i do about them???

Routine is like this
A 6.45
E milk 7.00
   breakfast 8.00
A 7-10.20
S 10.20-11.50

E dinner 12.00
A11.50- 3.00
E milk 2.30
S 3-4

E 4.30 tea
A 4-6.45
Bed 6.45

thanks  lili xx
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Offline Mashi

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2009, 10:34:55 am »
I would say it is worth phoning the paed and seeing if you can get in.  Or at very least your GP or whoever it is that has prescribed hypoallergenic milk.  Just to at least have a discussion with them about it.   It was our paed who referred us to a dietician, not GP, and in our PCT it was standard practice for any child with milk probs so that calcium needs could be discussed, they could make sure you knew to look for "hidden" milk, and to talk about the 12 month milk challenge. She was a good resource to have actually.

There is only one thing that I can see in your routine that might be an issue, and tbh, I don't know if it is or not. I'm only nitpicking just for the sake of trying to find something so that you have another idea iykwim!  Although 2-2.5 hours of daytime sleep is right-on for his age, and he's doing a decent 12 hour night, I am wondering if some of the NWs could be caused by one of his naps not being a nice long one to be more restorative?  Usually by this age parents are starting to cut one of the naps a bit shorter in order to prepare for the 2-1 - so for example, cutting the morning nap down to 45 minutes so that he takes a nap of almost 2 hours in the afternoon.  The longer sleep is more restful and restorative than the 1ish hour sleep and thus even though it is the same amount of sleep, he's not as tired.   But, as I said, I don't know if by NOT starting to cut the sleep and start the 2-1 at this age if it would cause NWs or not - may be worth popping over to toddler sleep and asking over there if it could be an issue or not.  That's all I can think of - and if it's not an issue, then I think we're back to the NWs either being teeth or tummy pains.  A vicious circle!!!  Sorry I'm not more help.....

Offline lilisuze

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 06:21:05 am »
I have just read a BIG FAQ on separation anxiety, and it mentions on there that the baby's cry is different from normal, more piercing and urgent. I am coming round to thinking that we are dealing with a combination of sepration anxiety and teething!! I will hold off on dairy till after the weekend (he doesnt have it at daycare wed/fri anyway) and see if it stops. if it all looks ok come monday, and his sleep is better i will reintroduce, if his sleep is still wonky i will leave off a bit longer, that way i can be more sure its sep anx. Do you know who has delat with this problem, that might be able to give me some advice? or should i post it on getting back on track?
sound like a plan?
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Offline Mashi

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2009, 18:56:49 pm »
Not sure why I missed your latest post on this thread, but saw it tonight and thought I would check in and see how things are going?

Offline lilisuze

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2009, 06:43:11 am »
hi mashi, I have managed to get him to have 1/2 a baby jar of rice pudding with no bad effects. He STTN, he did not puke, he did not scream! That was 1 week ago now. This week I will try 1/2 a jar 2 days in a row and see how we get on but we have got his booster injections today and he had a general anaesthetic yesterday for his laser birthmark treatment. So we again, are not going to be completely sure what causes any problems.
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Offline Mashi

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 07:03:19 am »
Glad to hear there are no probs with the milk so far! x

Offline lilisuze

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2009, 09:28:40 am »
ok another update! so I can get him to tolerate a bit of dairy dessert rice pudding/yog etc. He can also tolerate soft cheese, hard cheese in small slices and cheese in cooking. I dont want to push it too far though. Where do I go from here? whats the next stage?

TIA

Lili xx
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Offline Mashi

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2009, 10:26:43 am »
I would try him on a syringe of 5mLs of cow's milk - if there is a reaction then just keep with the bits of dairy that he CAN tolerate, and try again in a month or so.

Offline LizzieN

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 23:00:08 pm »
Hey sweetie,
I was speaking to a lady the other day who has a 4 year old with severe reflux STILL, the poor things!  Anyway I mentioned that I suspect our LO has an issue with yogurt but not other forms of dairy, and her son has real issues with "cold dairy" like yogurt, icecream etc...but NOT milk...strange isn't it?? She thinks it's got a lot to do with the preservatives they use...might be something to keep an eye on anyway!

I hope your dairy reintroduction is going really well
xxLizzie


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Offline lilisuze

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2009, 07:42:48 am »
ooh thanks lizzie i am off to the health visitor today so gonna see what the hospital suggests as reintroduction and go from there. 1 mullerrice pudding can be done so thats good right?
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Offline LizzieN

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2009, 08:54:43 am »
Sounds good to me sweetie!  Oh the mum I was talking about said that it took them about 3 YEARS to realise that these preservatives were causing issues too, poor things...I was amazed at how sane and lovely they still were!! 

Good luck with your health visitor appointment today, hope it gives you lots of answers
xxLizzie


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Offline Mashi

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Re: MPI milk re-introduction *update- advice needed*
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2009, 18:46:07 pm »
Yes, that is the biggest reason why the dietician and paed we saw always say that milk reintroduction should be done with MILK, not with yogurt, cheese, etc ... because other things are added and you have NO idea what it is causing the reaction if there is one.