7m old - have I got her EASY right? EWs recently started.

[*Fiona*]

Hi ladies, I weaned my little girl off the breast onto bottles at the weekend and she has taken to the change fantasticly! She has only ever STTN about 4 times since birth an it getting more consistent now she is on formula. Since going onto formula, I no longer need to feed her through the night as she usually accepts her dummy & goes back to sleep. However, I think I've got something slightly wrong on her routine as she is resisting daytime napping and is now EW around 4:30/5am and is wide awake!

Kirsty's routine is started from the time she wakes which is around 6-7am but the last week it had been consistently 7am (I usually get up once per night to replug her dummy, this is enough to help her go back to sleep, but the last few days hasn't worked at 5am)

E - 7am: 8-9oz milk, 1/4 weetabix & 3tsps fruit
A
S - 9:30-11/11:30

E - 11/11:30 depending on waking up: 9oz milk, 3tsps veggies
A
S - 2-3:30/4

E - 3:30/4 depending on waking up: 9oz miilk, 3tsps veggies
A
S - 6:30 we begin bedtime routine which is bath, 8-9oz bottle and bed. She is in bed consistently by 7/7:10pm at the latest.


For naps & bedtime, she is put to her cot awake with dummy and blanket. At bedtime she gets her mobile on (it's white-noise-like waves, no movement, no lights). Any NWs which I need to go replug her dummy, she doesn't get her mobile on unless she doesn't settle after 30mins of replugging/reassuring (very uncommon). Since going onto formula, she will sleep 7ish pm until around it had been 5/5:30am, we would replug & she would sleep until 6:30/7am. Now it's becoming earlier and not going back to sleep.

For the NWs/EWs she only yells for us to go replug, then she either goes to sleep or she will talk away to herself until I get up... she can quite happily talk away for 1-1.5 hrs  This doesn't sound so bad, but if she EWs at 5am, and talks to herself until 6/6:30 when I get up, she's ready for a nap quite soon already which upsets the rest of the day.

Should I mover her onto a 4hr EASY? She does start getting tired after 2.5hrs of being awake so I'm unsure. The past few days she has resisted her first nap altho she is giving tired cues - rubbing eyes, yawning, getting grumpy. Yesterday she refused her first nap, eventually went off when I took her out a walk in the buggy, she took another 1 hour nap in the afternoon but was reluctant to go off again. Today she refused to nap until she eventually fell asleep at 10:50am and slept 1 hour. Then had her usual 2-4pm sleep perfectly, no resistance.

Any ideas where I need to tweak please?When she doesn't nap or short naps, she is a grumpy girl

[sherry lynn]

Should I mover her onto a 4hr EASY?

I don't know if I've been starring at the computer too long, but this doesn't make any sense to me. You are on a 4 hour easy already aren't you?

2+ hours A time
2 naps a day

When she's been waking early are you adjusting the nap time or keeping it the same.

You posted how your schedule was, which looks good, by the last few days that you've had the EW what has it looked like?

The routine you've posted looks pretty good to me. Maybe somebody else will have a look and comment on it.

The only thing that stands out is the feeding. It seems like she should be taking a little more solids at this age?

If I remember correctly this is how we did solids
7am BF
8am solids (that way they are a little more hungry
Nap

11am BF
12 solids
nap

3pm BF
4pm solids - I gradually moved this later

6:45/7 BF
Straight to bed after BF

The only other thing that sticks out is maybe she is in an OT cycle. When you first dropped the catnap did you move bedtime up to compensate? All your other A times are around 2.5 but the last one is longer, has it always been this way?

[~*Nicole*~]

One thing I was wondering, you said you weaned from the breast to bottle this past weekend and she did well and is sleeping longer at night and doesn't need a feed b/c she does well with the formula, but she was used to a feed and going back to sleep. Now she wakes and gets her paci and was going back to sleep. Were both the feed and now the waking for the paci happening around the same time? I am wondering if her EWing is habit and she is unable to get back to sleep now b/c she has begun to rely on you being there from giving her the paci that she becomes too awake and can't settle back to sleep?

Have you tried wake to sleep to see if this could be a habitual waking? You sneak in quietly about an hour before the usual wake up time and try to subtly jostle your lo, by moving a blanket, or taking the paci out and putting it back in gently, so they sort of wake up but not really wake all the way....then sneak out. I think you're supposed to do this for a few days and it sometimes help break habitual waking. I have never tried it, but like sherry lynn said, your routine looks good It may have something to do with being awake often at this time and her body clock having become accustomed to waking then.

HTH.

[*Fiona*]

I do change naptimes to make up for the early wakings, that was just a typical day if she wakes at 7am. Yesterday I gave her a bottle at 5am and she went back to sleep, tried that this morning but it didn't work. She has been awake since 4:30am, it's now 6:30am. On days with EWs and not going back to sleep, our schedule is all wrong, I end up trying to ensure she naps 2.5hrs after waking each time.

When she was BF she would wake for a feed anywhere between 11pm and 3am, very unpredictable in the time but was only ever 1 feed per night, then she would go back to sleep until between 6/7am so it's not happening at the same time as the EW just now, she is consistently sleeping 7pm til 4:30/5am, But then seems to be refreshed enough to get up.

We did bring bedtime forward when she dropped her 3rd sleep.

Solids - I cut back slightly on the solids this week to encourage her to be hungry for her milk, the reason I weaned was because she had stopped taking milk through the day (long story cut short: I followed the annabel karmel sample routine - solids @ mealtimes, BFs @ naptimes, she was too tired to nurse before napping and hence she ended up dropping daytime milk feeds, lost weight and my milk supply suffered, so we weaned and I wanted to ensure she was hungry for milk and not filling up on solids alone. ).

If she wakes from last nap at 4, we have been doing bath/bottle/bed starting at 6:30, in bed by 7pm.


Hopefully I've answered all the Qs from your posts! It's early lol! Even if she would take a bottle at 5 and go back down, it would be better (both for her & I) than this waking so early and being wide awake.

[sherry lynn]

Fiona - I would encourage you to try the routine I put up there then. Now that she is taking a bottle you will be able to make sure that see is still taking enough milk. I think she is waking out of hunger, but then wants to start the day. I would give this a try. And then if she continues to wake you might have to go to set nap times and deal with OT for a little while.
What do you think?

So something like this
wake
BF
solids 1 hour later
nap 2.5 hours after wake up
nap - no longer than 2 hours

BF
solids 1 hour later
nap - 2.5 hours later for no longer than 2 hours

Bed by 7 (maybe a tad earlier if OT from being up early)

Does she have any other wakings throughout the night?

I guess the only other question I have is how did you know she was ready to drop the catnap? What signs was she giving you?

[*Fiona*]

I knew she was ready to skip her catnap because until about 4-6 weeks ago she was a terrible daytime sleeper - like 20 or 45mins at a time, and only in the buggy/car/bouncy chair. Then she accepted a dummy and was a dream to put for a daytime nap! I could put her in her cot awake and she would sleep easily for 1.5-2hrs. This spaced our day/routine nicely and she didn't need the short sleep anymore. She was consistent in sleeping 9:30-11:30 and 2-4.

Today I was at our health visitor for a check up on her weight since she lost last month (we were there last wk and the HV wanted to check her again today) and she has gained again nicely. The HV recommended doing 9oz bottles for breakfast & bedtime, and 5-6oz for lunch & dinner and increase the amount of solids at lunch & dinner to compensate. She also thinks Kirsty is waking due to hunger - I'm not sure as Kirsty doesn't cry when she wakes early, she happily lies in her cot rolling about, talking to herself. SUrely if she was hungry, she'd cry? I have wondered if this 7pm-4/5am solid sleep is refreshing her because she used to wake at least once during that time? She's not used to getting such a long stretch of sleep? Even if she went til 6am, I would gladly get up at 6am with her! 5am is just way too early.

Today's sleep has been awful, she woke at 4:30am, I gave her a bottle, she took 5oz but refused to sleep, so I got up with her at 6am. She slept 8am-9am and 1:30-2:30pm... that was it! I tried to get her back off at 2:30pm but she wasn't for it. She was tired by 4pm so gave her a bottle as it was feed time (everything was off time due to EW), and tried to put her for a nap but she refused again. She was in bed by 6:50 tonight.

Tmor I will try:

9oz milk followed by weetabix/fruit an hour later (all going well, 7 & 8am)
5oz milk followed by 2 course lunch an hour after (all going well, 11 & 12noon)
5oz milk followed by 2 course dinner an hour after (all going well, 3 & 4pm)
9oz milk at bedtime (7pm)

Timing will depend what time she gets up, but if she wakes early will try a bottle and resettling as much as we can, she can't cope with getting up so early (nor can I!!)

She has taken to rolling about her cot the last few days. She can roll from back to tummy but she isn't able to roll tummy to back yet and hates being on her tummy.... she is rolling in her cot, then cries because she is stuck. I think this is causing a big part of the sleeping problem. Am I right in thinking milestones such as rolling can play havoc with sleep/routines? She has almost mastered rolling back to her back but not quite there yet. Tmor I plan to get her on the floor as much as poss in the hope that she figures it out!

I exchanged her blanket & light sleeping bag for her heavier sleeping bag 2 nights ago in the hope it would discourage the rolling but to no avail! Also, I wondered if kicking off her blanket was possibly making her cold, so thought I'd try the heavier sleeping bag. As well as rolling, she shuffles to the top end of the cot when awake. She's a right wriggler!!!

Thanks in advance for everyone's input, I really appreciate it. I really want to try and correct whatever it is I have wrong, for Kirsty's sake!


p.s. no, she doesn't have any othr wakings in the night for the time being. Only this 4:30/5am waking.

[~*Nicole*~]

The rolling could be a contributing factor. I know I read somewhere that the sleep inducing hormones in our bodies tends to wear off around 5 am or so and that we sleep a bit lighter as a result. So if she is in a deeper sleep through the night she may be fine and as she gets to a lighter sleep in the early am hours she may roll and get uncomfortable and wake herself up. Once she has more control and she can get herself readjusted easier she may go back to settling and sleeping a bit longer in the am. Sherry lynn's routine looks good for you to try to see if will encourage consistency with bedtime and wake time. A set am naptime that is not too close to an EW can definitely help try to get rid of it.

[*Fiona*]

She slept much better last night, 7pm-5am when she woke, I went in and gave her the dummy & she went back off until 7am! This is how she used to be so perhaps it was just a phase or something. Hopefully it will continue. However, she did have a 2 course solids lunch yesterday, prior to that it was 1 course as I wanted to ensure she was taking her milk.

Today I've decided to follow the milk - solids an hour later routine posted by Sherr Lynn. I've reduced her lunch & dinner bottles slightly, to 7oz and will offer 2course solids for both.

Thanks for suggestions!!

[~*Nicole*~]

Excellent!

[sherry lynn]

Great news!! I hope you get a repeat tonight.

[*Fiona*]

She is still really resisting daytime naps. She was up around 7am this morning. Finally slept 11-12 and 3-4:30. She went off fine at 3 but the morning nap she resisted for such a long time.

Could it be that she just doesn't as need much in the morning anymore?

[sherry lynn]

She may be telling you that she is ready to increase her A time.

If she does A time changes well then I would try to increase that A time by 15 min tomorrow and see if that helps her settle easier.

[*Fiona*]

Well, I'm back and what a night. She was awake 1am-4am... but lay happily in her cot, in the dark, babbling to herself. I just don't get it. How can she be happy to lie alone, in darkness, for 3 hours?? I gave her 5oz milk at 4am and she went back off until 7am.

She took 7oz milk, and solids at 8am
5oz milk at 10:30am

Growth spurt perhaps? According to the "average" they are at 6 and 9 months. So I'm confused. I know not all babies have them at the same time, but she's almost right in the middle of the 2.

Being awake at 7am, she still wouldn't nap until 11:45am. I feel so lost with her. I don't know what I'm doing wrong   

[sherry lynn]

What time did you start trying to put her down for that first nap?

Do you recall a GS at 6 months. Maybe she is having hers late?

[Ernest's mum]

Hi there
I am no means an expert, but on reading this, if you LO is taking 5oz at 4am and then a full feed at in the morning it def sounds like hunger is a factor.  Have you tried increasing your LOs food.  Will she take more?  Why not see what happens, if she eats more?  My LO will only eat as much as he wants and I know it can be hard to increase their feed but if yours will take it then maybe she just needs more.

Is she warm enough at night?  Or is anything waking her like central heating??

Probably not much help, but I really feel your pain!!!