What do you do when baby still wakes up 3-4 times using PUPD??

[rose09]

Hi, I am new to this site but I need some advice about my son.

Isaac is 1 yrs old and never sleeps for more than 3 hrs sometimes less at night. I have been using the PUPD method with him for 2 mths. Even though I can settle him back to sleep he is still waking up 3-4 times at night is this normal? I used the same method on his sister and she slept through the night after 3 nights. I feel at loss to understand,probably lack of sleep doesn't help why he is such a poor sleeper.

Anyone else have any ideas or been in this type of position before advice needed!!     

[munzle]

Hi, I'm sure if you post your EASY routine someone will be able to give you some advice, as night time sleep is usually affected by daytime sleep. Post it something like this:

7am - Wake
12.30 Nap (usually 2 hours)
2.30 - Awake
6.30 - Bedtime routine and asleep by 7pm

or something like that!

[deckchariot]

It could definitely be a routine issue, so please do post that like Munzie suggested.

also, why did you start using pu/pd?  Has he generally gone to sleep independently, or are you using pu/pd to help him learn to do that?  Are you using it for NWs too?  At a year, I would use wi/wo rather than pu/pd because they can get pretty heavy by a year   Here's a link on that:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0

hth
michelle

[rose09]

Hi,

I am using the PUPD method to teach him to sleep independently. Because before he would only be bf to sleep. I don't feed him at night at all and I am in process of weaning him from bf.

His daily routine is this

6-7 am wake bf
10am Nap usually 2hrs
12.30 dinner
7.00 bedtime routine usually asleep by 7.45pm

Usually at night wakes at random times 3-4 times different times every night.

I also have 3 other children who need to go to bed at this time so it can be hard work !!!

[rose09]

I don't have any problems putting him to sleep in the day. I can leave Isaac in his cot and he will go to sleep. At night time he gets anxiety so that's why I used PUPD to teach him he can go to sleep. He is getting better slowly but doesn't seem to sleep for that long .

[deckchariot]

Thanks for posting your routine and clarifying why you're using pu/pd.  Well done to you on trying to break that association with bfing to sleep!!!

The first thing I notice is that he has a super long A time between his nap and bedtime.  He only does 3-4 hrs of A time before his nap, but is then doing 7+ hrs between nap and bedtime.  At a year, many bubs are still taking 2 naps.  Average day sleep is generally 2.5 - 3 hrs.  I suspect he's way OT (overtired) by bedtime and that's making things so much worse.  Especially when you mention that he does better with day sleep.  Frequent wakings at night also would indicate OT to me.

How long has he been on one nap?  Given how early his first nap of the day is, I would actually suggest offering a second nap - a shorter catnap maybe around 3 (or 3:30)  just for 45 min or so - you'd probably need to wake him.  And I'd also move his bedtime earlier.  Most bubs at his age still work best on a 12 hr day/night.

I suspect if he can get some more sleep and not be so OT at bedtime, you'll find that the pd works much better.  And I wouldn't do the pu part - he's too big for that - I'd just lay him down.

[rose09]

Thanks for your reply. Isaac has been on one sleep since 8mths which I know is young but his sister was the same and I had no problem.
I think the problem for me is that when you have more children you need routine but things get in the way. Like you suggesting a sleep at 3 pm  I can see the logic but I have to do the school run. When I have managed to let him have a nap in the afternoon he's more hyper at bedtime. I agree that he is OT but not sure how to get him to fit in with our daily routine.

[deckchariot]

Having more than one bub certainly does add extra issues to trying to sort things out!  Thanks for letting me know about the school run - I still think there are some ways to help him get some more day sleep and still work around other things going on in the home.

when you've done an afternoon nap - what time have you tried it and how long have you let him sleep?  Could you do just a short nap when you get back from your school run?

If squeezing in a second nap isn't possible, I'd try shifting his nap later in the day so that he doesn't have so much A time after his nap and before bedtime.  You could shift it just 15 min every 3-5 days, so it's very, very gradual.  Also, I'd still move his bedtime earlier.  I just think he's so OT at bedtime that it's not helping with the sleep training.

hang in there!!

[rose09]

I think I have to many children 

 Isaac does show signs of being tired shortly after the first school run. So I have moved his nap time to between 9.30-10 am. I cant really shift that later because my other little girl has pre school and needs picking up at 12pm. He pretty much always sleeps for 2hrs.
In the past I have put him to bed @ 2pm and let him sleep for an hour. But even though he does get tired later in the day he wont go to sleep in the afternoon anymore.

I am working on putting him to bed first now and have managed to get him in bed asleep by 7.15 pm but even though he goes in his cot awake he always wakes again in under an hour . Some days are better than others but the process is slow and time consuming.

[deckchariot]

I'm guessing that waking early in the night is definitely due to OT.

So, no he sleeps from 9:30/10  - 11:30/12 and then nothing til bedtime at 7:15?  That's such a long stretch - I'm sure it's that OT that's causing the NWs.  I suspect the 2:00 nap is now too early for him to have another nap, and perhaps even that an hour was too long.  Usually when mums are doing the 2 to 1 nap switch, if the am nap is the longest, then the pm nap is super short (like only 30 min).  Would you be able to do a quick catnap when you get back from your school run?

You mention that you do a school run at noon, how long does that take?  I think ideally , you'd like to get him to the point where his nap is after that school run - so that's quite a shift from going down at 9:30/10.  What you might want to try is shortening that am nap (leave it at 10, but start cutting it shorter - just 15 min every few days) and that may help him take an earlier pm nap - before the afternoon school run.  So eventually, that 10:00 nap would only go til 10:30, then he'd take a longer nap between your noon and pm school runs.  And then you could cut out the 10:00 catnap, and he'd have his long nap in the middle of the day.

I'm also concerned that with a big long sleep so early in his day, that may eventually cause EWs - some mums find that if the first nap of the day is too early and too long, it acts as an extension of night sleep, so some bubs wake even earlier in the day.  And 7 hrs of A time is really, really long.  My dd is 2.5 and she cannot do 7 hrs of A time without getting super OT.  So if we can figure out a way to shift around your day around the school runs, I think we can balance out his day a bit better.

Would either of these routines work (or at least be worth a try - give the school runs)?

6-7 wake
10 - nap (shorten it gradually, to get down to 30 min)
12 - school run
1 - nap (this would be the long one, you could even start it at 12:30 if you're back, he can have dinner before you leave for the school run)
7ish - bedtime

if his 2nd nap goes til 2:30 (I don't know what time you need to leave)  That cuts his A time to bedtime down to 4.5 hrs, which is much more reasonable.

or.....

6-7 wake
9:30/10 - long nap (don't wake him)
2:30/3 - school run (I don't know what time this is)
3:30 - catnap (wake after 30 min)
7ish - bedtime
again, that last A time will be much shorter....

It can be confusing to arrange things around all your other kids, so I'm just tossing out options to see if something might work.  Hang in there!  It is possible with multiple children