W2S for EW's? Any advice?

[ryates71]

Hi All,

We seem to have sorted out most of the NW's by moving to bottle feeding (EBM).    He has always woken between 5:20 and 5:40 but usually I managed to get him back down to sleep.  As the NW's have reduced I have slowly had less and less success at resettling him and for the last 3 mornings he has woken up 5:40, 5:40 and (this morning) 5:20 and I have not managed to get him back to sleep. 

Has anyone tried Wake 2 sleep for EW's?  Has it worked?  What time should I get up?  I'm just scared that if I try it I'll end up starting the day even earlier!!!

Cheers,
Rachel

[Fergie12]

Hi there.

I had a similar issue when my lo was about 3 months old.  Like you i had managed to get rid of the NWs but he wanted to get up at 5.00am to start the day.  So one morning i thought i would try W2S.  I got up 1hour before he usually woke, so set my alarm for 4.00am.  Went in to his bedroom and gently stroked his hair until he stired and then put some light pressure on his chest until he managed to settle back down.  The next morning i set my alarm for the same time thinking that it would take a few days before before he would stop waking early.  However when my alarm went off i fell  back to sleep by mistake and only woke up when i heard him making noises on the baby monitor.  I looked at the time and it was about 7.00am.  From then on he now wakes no earlier than 6.30 and even then most mornings i have to go in at 7.00 to wake him up lol.

I would def give it W2S a go, try getting up about an hour before your lo usually wakes.  Will keep my fingers crossed for you that it works!!!   

[ryates71]

Thanks Fergie - Love the picture.

I forgot to mention that we are still having 1 or 2 NWs.  One of these I usually end up BF'ing.  Not sure whether to tackle this or the EW first - but it's the EW that I find the hardest (don't mind BF'ing in the night as long as I get back to sleep!!!!

[Fergie12]

I totally sympathise, there is nothing worse than not being able to go back to sleep.

As he is feeding during the night there is a good chance that when he wakes at 5.20-5.40 he is waking through habit and not because of hunger.  If it is habitual waking then i think that W2S would be worth a try for you.  If you are happy that he is not waking due to hunger i would try it.  Sorry i forgot to ask how old your lo is, also do you give him a dream feed??

[ryates71]

Hi,

LO is 20 weeks.  We've just switched to bottle feeding due to the NW's and that seems to have helped.  He is on a 4 hour routine and has a DF of 8oz formula at around 10:30pm.  The BF can be anywhere between 2am and 4am.  I have tried feeding him at 5:30 when he wakes but doesn't seem to need it and it doesn't send him back to sleep.

Was planning to try W2S last night but for some reason my alarm didn't go off (napppy brain!).  Anyway he woke at 4:45 so I was hoping that once I settled him he would then go through for longer but he woke again at 5:30.  I will work out what happened with the alarm and try again tonight.

Thanks
Rachel

[ryates71]

Ok, tried W2S last night.  Here's how it went.

LO has woken at 9:30pm and 5:30am for the past 5/6 days.  So thought we would try to tackle both at once (although the 9:30pm one isn't too bad as it's just as I'm on my way to bed.)

7:20pm - In bed drowsy but not fully asleep
8:30pm - went in and gently jostled him.  He stretched his arms out and grunted a bit but didn't wake fully.
9:25pm - crying, had rolled over on to his back.  Used PU/PD to resettled him.
9:45pm - crying, had rolled over on to his back.  Used PU/PD to resettled him.
10:30pm - DF - 6oz FF
2:40am - woke for feed (BF)
4:20am - went in and jostled him.  He woke and started crying.  Tried PU/PD to resettle.  Ended up BF'ing and the whole lot took took 40 mins to get him back down fully.
5:20am - cried out but didn't wake fully
5:40am - cried out but didn't wake fully
6:20am - crying, rolled over on to back.  Quick attempt to resettle but he was awake and chatting so started the day.

Does this sound like I'm doing it right?  How can I avoid waking him fully at 4:20 as we have only been having one BF a night so I don't think he really needed the milk.

I still feel knackered 'cos I didn't get much sleep after 4:20 but I'm glad we didn't have to start the day until after 6.  Will try it again tonight but a little bit worried about being too tired.

[Fergie12]

Oh no im sorry you had such a rubbish night 

He was possibly really OT at 4.20 so when he did wake it was too much for him.

It might well take a few days of doing W2S consistently before it really works for you...... but im not entirely sure as i think i was quite lucky with my lo.  If you are not too tired tonight, might be worth another try, it is good that he didn't fully wake at 5.20 and 5.40 even though he was still crying out.

I don't want to throw too many ideas at you at once, but something else that you could try when you feel ready is introducing a lovey.  I just gave one to my lo about a week ago, to try and help wean him off the swaddle for daytime naps (he doesn't seem to need swaddling at night for some strange reason), and i have to say that it really seems to be working and if he wakes early from his nap he is able to use the lovey to self-soothe back to sleep.  But it is only in the last 2 days that he has been able to do this, the rest of the week has been a lot of going in and resettling.  What i have done is give it to him to hold at every naptime and night time so that he starts to associate it with sleep.  It could be that your lo is using you and the BF'ing as his lovey to help him get back to sleep, especially if you don't think he is waking due to hunger.

Going to keep my fingers crossed for you, also sending a big hug.  Hope it goes better for you tonight.

[Tweakster]

Hi Rachel, it may be that he doesn't need a full jostle, maybe just a little brush over his head or some slight pressure ...something gentle so he just stirs without fully waking.  If he is going to bed OT he will be having difficulty transitioning all night and so W2S might not help in that case.  They are in the lightest sleep usually in the latter part of the night.  I think if you maybe try to solve the NW and get him some consolidated sleep at night it might help with the EW.  What are his naps like? How about an earlier bedtime...to try to encourage a 11 or 12 hour day/night.  Is it possible to put him to bed earlier until he is over this OT hump?

I like the lovey idea from pp, we offered Finn a lovey at 3 months and he never even noticed it was in his crib.  Now he rubs it all over his face when he is self-soothing.  Basically you hug it between the two of you when you are winding down and/or BF and so it gets the smell of you on it too. It's great and worth a shot!

Hang in there...it's going to get better.  Finn is almost 6 months and mostly STTN.

[ryates71]

Hi Ladies,

Thanks for the encouragement.  I did try it again last night and here's what happened:

7:30pm - in bed
9:20pm - I went and sat in his room to see what would happen.  He was deep asleep initially but then started stirring at 9:30.  I triggered his sound box (heart beat sounds) but had to leave to have a coughing fit.  Anyway, he carried on sleeping.
10:30pm - DF
0:00 - woke, resettled by DH
2:40am - 3:20 - woke, fed, settled but then stirred again so resettled.
4:20am - W2S - very gently patted him until he tossed his head a bit.
5:00am - resettled
6:45am - woke, rolled over and chilled until I went in at 7am to be greeted by big smiles.

He does have a lovey (lion) which seems to be helping to settle him.  However I think part of the problem with the NW's is that he's a tummy sleeper and tends to roll over when he wakes but can't roll back.

[Fergie12]

It does sound like the little guy is OT at bedtime.  Your lo is the same age as my lo and i know how bad he can be when OT so i have to watch him very carefully.  How many naps does he take during the day? You could try moving his bedtime forward to see if that would help with some of the NW's. 

[Tweakster]

Hi Rachel, when he wakes at those times that needs resettling how long are you waiting before you go in?  Is it full on crying?  Have you left him a bit to see what he will do?  Can he go to sleep on his back or is he just a tummy sleeper?

I think you have to get him out of the OT cycle which means better naps and earlier bedtime if you can.  And then work on trying to reduce the NW - not being so OT should help with that.  I think until the OT and NW are gone it's kind of hard to solve an EW.  Normally W2S is for habitual early waking where you can time it by a clock.  It sounds like he is generally unsettled and waking all night.

What's his first nap like?  Do you have an EASY you can post?

[ryates71]

Hi,

He's a tummy sleeper and has never slept on his back unless in pram or car seat - even then he doesn't sleep brilliantly.  So at the moment when he rolls himself over I know he's not going to resettle on his own.

Day times are very inconsistent at the moment.  Second child syndrome - my DD starts school full time from monday (yikes!) so for the past 3 weeks we've had no consistent routine.  However after reviewing my A times I have managed to get good morning naps from him most of this last week.  Morning A is about 2hr30m which I know is long for his age but any shorter and I only get a 45min nap.  2nd A time is the one I haven't figured out yet.  He has no real sleepy cues - infact if he's showing them it means he's already OT.

At night he goes down really well.  Usually his last A time after a catnap is less than 2 hrs.  I've been reluctant to try and get him down earlier due to the EW's.  I think when we've sorted out the naps and NW's then if heis still EWing I would try it.  However part of the reason he has a late bedtime is due to getting dinner sorted for DD - I try and do this during the catnap so if he went to bed earlier would I have to forgo the catnap??

Anyway, a better night last night!

7:20pm bed time
10:30pm DF (no 9:30 waking!!)
2:00am Woke, thought I'd got him resettled but then started again and ended up feeding
4:20am W2S - patted him a few times until he stirred.
6:00am Woke, unable to resettle so started the day.

Tomorrow I think I might try 2 things - bottle feeding him rather than BF'ing in the night to see how much he takes.  W2S at 5am rather than 4:20am (or should I leave the W2S out altogether?).  I could also try Hungry Baby formula at the the DF but not sure if it is right to do this alongside EBM??

Right, better go and do the feed as I've put it off as long as possible and LO is starting to complain!!

Thanks again for all the advice,
Rachel

[Fergie12]

Hi Rachel,

Glad that last night was so much better for you.  Not sure about anyone else but i tried the hungry baby formula, i didn't find it made any difference apart from make him a little constipated, so i just went back to the normal formula and re-evaluated how much he was eating during the day and when.  I think it would be a good idea to give him a bottle at the NW just to see how much he is actually eating, that way you know if he is really hungry or just wanting you for comfort.  If he does not appear to eat that much when he does wake around 2.00am then perhaps he is just waking through habit at this time, in which case W2S might work best here instead of the EW.

 

[ryates71]

Oh, forgot to mention that he's really snuffly as well at the moment so I think the night feed might just be to clear the airways a bit.  I used olbas oil and have propped the end of the bed up so that he is lying at an angle but any other suggestions greatly appreciated. 

Going for a weigh in today to see if he's gaining weight again.  Fingers crossed 'cos I've been working really hard at getting more food down him and if he hasn't gained weight then I'm at a loss as to what to do!

[Tweakster]

Hi Rachel, if he is snuffly you can also use a bit of saline...don't know where you are located geographically but we get a little tube of saline solution and just put a few drops in each nostril to help clear it out. 

Wishing you luck on the weight gain!

I think it is worthwhile going ahead to find out what he is taking at night and then you know whether he's hungry or just comfort feeding.  It seems like a lot of wakings for food at his age but then again if he is having weight gain issues then he could be legitimately hungry.

He sounds like he might be a Touchy with sleep?  What time is his CN?  Yes if he doesn't do the CN you put him to bed earlier...sometimes this helps with the OT and doesn't cause an EW, it sounds counterintuitive but because sleep begets sleep they tend to sleep longer (usually if they have had decent naps too).  But I think you might need to sort the NW before you can work on the EW.  With us once our NW were gone, he slept 12 hours but just not at the time we want - 6 - 6 :-(  We are stuck in that loop for a while until we can push his A times more.

Keep us posted!