4 month old early waking

[wolsara1]

My 4 month old son is having sleep issues that I have posted on other boards, but I have a question about wake up time and naps.  No matter how the rest of the night went, he is usually up by 5 or 5:30 ready to eat.  I feed him and try to get him back to sleep, but by the time he will go back down it is 7 and time to eat and start our day.  If I feed him again at 7 to keep our routine when should I put him back down for a nap?  Right after eating?  or should I try to keep him awake until the next nap time and chance having an overtired baby?

Please help!

[Tweakster]

Hi there, when would he normally nap if he got up at 7?  I think he will go OT if you push it because that first nap is an extension of night sleep and often their first A is less than their other A times.  When are his night feeds?  Any chance of pushing out that 5 feed?  Could you shush/pat or does he take a paci instead? 

I just wonder if he is really hungry or the EW is due to something else i.e. OT because he takes so long to go back down after.   

[sherry lynn]

Is he on a 4 hour EASY?

[wolsara1]

No, he is not on a 4 hour EASY yet.  I am still trying to get a good 3 hour routine before I start changing it.  His naps are inconsistent from 40 min to 2 hours.  And sometimes he won't go to sleep for a nap and I end up feeding him and then putting him back down about 30 min. later and throwing off the rest of the day.

He wakes frequently at night too and feeds each time.  I'm not sure if it is out of comfort or if he is really hungry (not getting enough during the day).  I think that he is going through a growth spurt the past couple days because last night I put him to bed by 8pm, he was awake and hungry at 10:30, 2am, 5am.  I topped him off at 7 and we ended up falling asleep together (oops) until 9:30.

If he does get up at 7, then his next nap is usually around 8:30 because I am feeding him again at 10.  When he wakes at 5ish I have tried shh/pat but sometimes he is just too awake for it to work.  And, no, he doesn't take a paci.

Hope this helps.  Any tips on getting to a 4 hour EASY?

[sherry lynn]

It sounds like you are going to have to go to a 4 hour easy without getting a good 3 hour easy. It sounds like he is ready.

These should help

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63161.0

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=120362.0

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.0

I am going to be out of town for a week, put still post questions. I'm sure Wendy will be around to help.

[Tweakster]

Hi there, the links Sherry posted are great...have a look and see what you think. 
Do you know what temperament your LO is?  Try the quiz:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52283.0

If he is Touchy or Spirited you may have to handle the jump to 4 hour differently...like using the 5 minute increments as shown in a link above.  Some LO's can just adapt by pushing out by half hour. 
Your routine might look like EASAE etc. for a while.  Remember to keep an eye on OT and NW while you are making the adjustment and move every 3 days to gauge success.

That said, if he is in a GS then I would just ride the wave until he is done with the crazy eating.  If he is legitimately hungry at night then feeding him is the answer.  And going back to sleep so you are all better rested is not an issue :-)

[wolsara1]

I believe that he is a Textbook/Touchy baby.  He sort of fit into both categories.

You said that his routine might be EASAE for a while.  Now if he wakes at 7 and I am trying to get him on a 4 hour schedule I should put him down by 9 and feed again at 11.  If he wakes at 10 or 10:30 and won't go back to sleep.  I should wait to feed him at 11, but when should I put him down for his next nap?  Won't that mess up the rest of his day?  Just wondering.

I'm going to start trying to get him on a 4 hr routine.  I think this might improve his eating and hopefully his napping.  Thanks for all the links!

[Tweakster]

Hi there, you do an A time until next feed.  What kind of A time is he doing now?  BW says 4 month A time is ~1 hour and 45 - 2 hours...but I know Finn was never that high.  He was more like 1.5 hrs for quite a while.

So if he wakes at 10:30 then you do A until 11, feed him and then put him down 1.5 to 2 hours after he woke - A is eyes open to eyes shut - it really depends on his A time...and you have to build the eating and wind down into A time. 

So it might look like:
E 7
A
S 9 - 10:30
A
E 11
A
S 12:30 - 2
A
E 3
A
CN 4 - 4:45
and so on until bed.

Let us know how it goes and post your current routine so we can help tweak.  The thing that throws things off is the Short Napper but if you can get the right A times and decent naps then you can do this EASAE for a while until his A time increases.

[wolsara1]

Well, today was a nightmare!!!  Here's how the day went:

7:10 - Awake and Eating
8:35 - PU/PD
8:55 - Eyes closed (shush/pat until 9:10)
9:35 - Awake (I think it was gas related) Tried PU/PD for 10 - 15 min, no luck
10:15 - Eat
10:45 - PU/PD
11:00 - Sleep (shush/pat until 11:08)
11:35 - Awake - Tried PU/PD for 10 min, no luck
Put him in ERGO carrier and he napped from 12 - 1:15
1:30 - Eat
2:45 - PU/PD
3:00 - Sleep (shush/pat until 3:10)
3:30 - Awake - Tried PU/PD for 15 min, still no luck
4:20 - Eat (nursed AND gave 2 oz of formula)
5:00 - PU/PD and still no nap!
6:30 Bath/Feed/Bed
Except he fought sleep until about 9:15!!!

I know that he was way overtired, but I don't know what I should have done to get him to sleep.  I have a toddler too and can't spend all day doing PU/PD.  Any suggestions? 

Is it "wrong" to put him in the carrier for naps?  Will it screw up any of the work that I have been doing trying to get him to sleep independently?

On the brighter side...his night sleeping has been better the past few nights.  I skip the dream feed and see how long he will go.  He has been sleeping until around 2am (give or take a 1/2 hr)!  And going back to sleep until about 6:30, YEAH!!!  We decided to start supplementing with a couple oz of formula only at night which seems to help him sleep.

My other question is about moving to a 4hr routine.  My LO, as you can see, gets OT really easy and can only handle about 1.5hr A.  But, he can go longer between feeds.  Can I just focus on spreading out the feeding times first and then go back and try to extend his A times?  Or do you recommend doing it simultaneously?

Please help!  I don't want to repeat today's schedule!!!

[sherry lynn]

HI there, we are back now.

How have the last few days been?

[Tweakster]

Hi there, somehow missed your new post :-(  Our life has been falling apart here at 6 months...teething and major sleep disturbances. 

There isn't really a need to rush to the 4 hour EASY.  If your LO can do the feeds at 4 hours you can work around it with EASAE for a while.  Finn's feeds have always been erratic and sporadic due to reflux but we still maintain some semblance of EASY.

As you say you have a toddler to look after, it's hard to do sleep training unless you have additional help.  Is there anyone who can come and help you with your toddler while you work on naps with your DS?  I found it was only when our nights were better and we all got some sleep that I felt like I could tackle naps.  Until he was doing better at night we/I used the swing for a lot of his naps...finally phased it out by 5 months (he was too big for it anyway).  So I would say a nap or two in the carrier so you and he can get some rest is ok until you can spend the time sleep training.

It sounds like he still needs to learn how to sleep independently and transition between the cycles.  We stuck strictly to shush/pat because PU/PD was too stimulating for Finn.  Could your DS be the same?  Is he Touchy with sleep?

Do let us know how the past few days have been.

[sherry lynn]

We also only did shh/pat, pu/pd didn't work. But later at around a year I did have success with wi/wo. But it was a lot of work.