Author Topic: Need some advice please  (Read 971 times)

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Offline Tobysmum

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Need some advice please
« on: September 09, 2009, 17:02:55 pm »
Hi,
I have a 18 month old Gus who is still breastfeeding (only at bedtime and morning when he wakes - although has almost dropped bedtime feed).

Routine is roughly as follows:

Wake up between 5.45am and 6.30 but only very very rarely as late as that - usually around 6am.
S 12.30pm for 1.5-2hrs
S 7.00pm

The last few days he's been waking close to 5.30am and if I feed him he'll sleep for another 45 mins or so.  In my opinion anything earlier than 6am is too early to get up!!  And even that is super early as my 3 yr old doesn't wake until about 7.15am!    Last night he woke at 2.30am and would not go back to sleep (I could have breastfed him but I really don't want to get into the habit of that - as I've fed him at 5.30am for the 2 days before that).
Husband thinks that I need to wean him from breastfeeding and that he only wakes early because he wants me to breastfeed him.  I am reluctant to do this since I am not ready to wean him (and he clearly doesn't want to either!)  Last night he cried on and off from 2.30am until he went back to sleep at 3.40am (DH went in twice to try and settle but was NOT pleased at having to do this!!)

Any thoughts on what to do with the EWs or NWs?  or why they are happening?  He napped well yesterday and the EWs don't seem to be caused by him having bad naps or anything I don't think.  DH is getting very frustrated!

Thoughts please!!!
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Offline Peek-a-boo

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Re: Need some advice please
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2009, 04:25:29 am »
My 15 mo bf DD has similar wake ups sometimes and I look at it like this:  thank goodness I'm still bf and have a quicky easy way to get her back to sleep that allows me to stay half asleep myself.  If I quit bf, she'd still wake up like this and then goodness know how or if I'd be able to get her back to sleep! 

So, no help, just a different perspective. ;)  I suspect for my own DD that a lot of her odd wake ups have to do with teeth and I don't like to give meds, so I'd rather give her a snuggle and bf and resettle her that way than drug her up with Advil/Tylenol.  I think sometimes their teeth cause those early morning wake ups because they are nearing the end of their sleep cycle and in a lighter sleep so are more prone to disturbance by discomfort. 

Offline becky1969

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Re: Need some advice please
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2009, 16:20:43 pm »
18 months is a very common trouble spot with sleep.  Most often the reason is the canines are starting to come in; those are probably the most painful and problematic teeth.  Children who breezed thru teething before can have lots more problems with the canines.

You definitely don't want to get in the habit of BF back to sleep for those wakings as your DH is right -- your child will wake just to have the BF session.  BF is a lovely, comforting thing; but we want our children to sleep independently.

I'd probably start by giving some pain meds either at bedtime or at the first NW and see if that helps.  If you give the meds at the NW, you can soothe by comforting in any way you see fit EXCEPT for BF. 

You may also want to try a slightly earlier bedtime for a few days to see if that gets rid of the EW.  When teething children can be more tired than usual.  If napping is going OK then just move bedtime 30 minutes earlier and see if that helps.  If napping is also falling apart, then you can move nap 15-30 minutes earlier.
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Offline Tobysmum

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Re: Need some advice please
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2009, 17:25:33 pm »
Ladies, thank you for your advice!

BECKY1969 - well, I have not had any NWs since that one-off one that I wrote about a week or so ago.  BUT, the 5.40am wake-up thing is DEFINITELY a habit now that I am not particularly enjoying shall we say!  He goes to sleep around 7pm and then wakes consistently around 5.35/5.40 EVERY morning now.  I leave him for a bit, but I know he's not going to go back to sleep now as I have been going in to breastfeed him and then he'll go back to sleep for another 30-45 mins usually.  This is a relatively new thing (he has always been awake for the day between 6.00-6.30).  I wish I had never started feeding him at this time, but that's in hindsight.

What can I do about it?  He sleeps next door to my 3.5 year old, and I guess that's why I started to go in and feed him for fear of waking him up.  To be honest now, I don't care if my 3.5 year old wakes up as I just want Gus to not do this early wake-up anymore.

I personally do not believe it's anything to do with his teeth, I think it is just a habit he's got into and he just enjoys a breastfeed at this time now - and perhaps is even hungry for it now as he's got used to it.

What can I do?  I am not sure what techniques we use at this age - he's 18 months today.  He's also very stubborn!  I have built a rod for my own back I think by going in to feed him - he'll just cry until I go in!

Please help!!!!
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Offline becky1969

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Re: Need some advice please
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2009, 23:55:38 pm »
Well, you're probably just going to have to stop feeding him and explain that there are no feeds until after 6 am. (I'd start with 6 am and if you get that going, then you can move it to 6:30 am or later).

One method that many mom's have found successful with breaking EW habits with toddlers is the 'sunrise clock.'  This is a clock that simulates a sunrise by having a light that slowly gets brighter from the time you set it.  So, you can teach your son that when the light on the clock goes on, then he can have a BF.  But before that he will NOT be getting a BF.  Of course, he's going to test you!!! he's probably going to make a right ruckus! Perhaps you could have DD sleep at grandma's for a couple of nights, or else you can just tackle this on a weekend so everyone isn't too tired when he yells the house down!  ;)


You can try a reward chart as well.  18 months is a bit young, but I did one with my son at that age that worked pretty well.  He would get a sticker every morning he waits until after 6 am to wake you.  You can even explain to him that it's OK with you if he wakes up as long as he plays quietly in his room.  I don't know if he's in a crib or a bed, but if he's in a bed you might want to allow him to get up to look at books or put some kind of quiet toy in his room.  The thing is that once the BF is taken away and he gets up early a few mornings to play, that will probably get old and he'll start sleeping later 'cuz why bother?  ;)


The best thing is to have SOME kind of visual cue for him to know when it's OK to get up.  Another thing mom's have done is put stickers on a clock face to show when wake-up time is -- so you'd put a sticker at the 12 and 6 positions.  You'd show him that when the hands are pointing to stickers that then it is OK to get mommy for a BF.  Otherwise he needs to play quietly in his room.  If he fusses, you are allowed to go in and say "Honey, it is too early for BF. Mommy's boobies are sleeping.  When (clock light turn son; hands point to stickers) you can get me for BF.  Until then I need you to play quietly.  I love you!"


Like I said, he's going to test this as it won't make him happy! But if you hold your ground AND reward him for complying, then I think you'll be pleasantly surprised!! In fact, you may want to give him a small prize when he successfully complies.  At his age, you might give a small stuffed toy or whatever.  And also praise what a BIG BOY he is.  REally brag about it to family members all day if you can get him to successfully wait until 6 am.  The first time you try this, I'd probably reward him as long as you don't feed him until after 6 am even if he shouts the house down.  That will set in his mind that waiting for BF has a reward attached.  Then you'll explain that next time he only gets prize if he can play quiet without waking you up.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 23:58:14 pm by becky1969 »
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Offline Tobysmum

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Re: Need some advice please
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2009, 17:37:32 pm »
Becky 1969 -
Thanks for your thoughts on the EW.  Whilst I don't want to "poo poo" your suggestions, I can't really see any of them working at his age.  The sunrise clock is going to be a difficult one as I live in Bermuda and we cannot get anything like that here - costs a fortune to ship anything here too.  Unfortunately DS#1 cannot go anywhere to sleep for the night as we have no family here (all our family live in the UK).  In my opinion he wouldn't have a clue about a reward chart - perhaps he's a young 18 month old - I just can't see him understanding that concept at all.  He's in a crib (my 3.5 old is still in one too - his decision).  As far as giving him books or toys in his bed, his room is very dark (black out curtains etc), so he can't see much .
I don't know what visual cue I can give him really to give him (and I still think he's too young to grasp that concept anyway).  I don't think he'd understand the concept of a prize either. 

Maybe I am not giving him credit for what he's capable of understanding - but in my mind, he's still very much a baby and is too young to understand these concepts.

What are BWs thoughts on crying it out at this age anyway?  I don't even know if that would work anyway.

Sorry to appear negative (I don't want to be and really appreciate your suggestions), but I just can't see these working for him at this age.
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Offline becky1969

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Re: Need some advice please
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2009, 14:52:05 pm »
No CIO ever is the BW policy.

My son was also a 'young' 18 month old.  He didn't start talking until 2.5 so I pretty much thought of him as a 'baby' until then.  But he did get the reward thing at 18 months in a very simple way.  I think it would be worth trying.  If it doesn't work, you toss that idea!  But try first -- you may be very surprised what LO understands even tho not talking.  IN fact, this was an amazing age for my son b/c he FINALLY started signing after a year of us teaching signs to him.  We were so surprised when he started signing abstract concepts -- using signs he knew for objects to communicate ideas or feelings.  We had no idea those kind of thoughts were going on in his head! So lack of language can really affect how we perceive our LOs, and I suspect he understands a bit more than you realize. But I digress!!

You could tell him no BF until mommy comes into his room to wake him up for the day.  Then you would need to set your alarm for 6 am for a week or so until he gets used to that routine.  Then you could slowly increase the time -- set alarm for 6:10, then 6:15, then 6:20 etc. until you get to what you might consider a reasonable waking time.  If he cries before your alarm goes off, you would go in and say "It isn't wake up time yet! Mommy will come in when it is! Now please just wait quietly."  If he fusses ignore him, if he full out cries go in and remind him again that you will come in at the start of the day.  The first time you do this he'll probably protest the whole time.  The next time he may only protest at first but then wait b/c he'll know that he's not getting the BF reward. 

Now, it's also up to you when he first cries for the BF if you turn on his light and give him a book in his crib.  That might not be a bad way to help him entertain himself.  ON the other hand, left on his own in the dark he *may* go back to sleep if BF isn't an issue.  I don't think giving him a book in his bed would be as enticing as a BF -- in other words, I don't think *that* activity would cause habitual EWs.  But it's up to you and based on his personality you can decide how you want to handle it.
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Offline Peek-a-boo

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Re: Need some advice please
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2009, 16:19:03 pm »
What about wake to sleep to see if you could shift that EW?  It's probably a bit of a habitual thing at this point.  The normal recommendation is to stir them an hour before the time they would normally wake, but some one here mentioned that they did it on their way to bed (so like at 11:00 pm) and that worked.  Where you have to kids sleeping in the room together and there's a risk that one or both might wake, I'd maybe do it earlier than 1 hour before the wake up--when it's still 100% dark outside and if either wakes you'd have a good shot at resettling them.