please help!!! 7 month old NWs getting worse by the day...need advice!

[samypoo]

Over 6 months old sh/pt tends to become bothersome to some babies instead of soothing. Generally you would move onto pickup/putdown but I think these are tools to teach independent sleep to babies who haven't been taught yet. I find that if my LO wakes early crying and I go in and just sit still and quietly next to the cot with my hand on her chest she will, most times (if I'm lucky), drift back off to sleep and then I creep out but you will know what might work best with your LO.
You are going to try lengthen the A time so be brave and push through those tired signs. I found the tired signs seemed to change as my LO got older and what I thought were tired signs were just boredom, teeth etc. and remember to keep at it for 3 days then if it doesn't work at least you can cross long A times off the list and try something else.

My pregnancy is going ok so far, thanks. Last time I had pre-eclampsia and ended up in hospital for awhile with an early delivery so I'm really hoping that doesn't happen again. This time I have Placenta Previa but I'm ever hopeful that the darn thing will move out of the way so I can have a normal delivery. We are having another girl, hopefully they will be good friends as they will be so close in age.
I hope tomorrow is a better day for you

[annette.xx]

2 girls how lovely!!

Fingers crossed for a great preganancy and delivery! I had the perfect pregnancy and ended up with emergency C section and intensive care!!! im sooooo scared to have another but I cant let Jasmine be an only child she needs company bless her!!

thanks again for all your help you are a star!

Annette.xx

[annette.xx]

Hi

just wanted to update you...

my plan to extend A time today has crashed and burned...il explain...

basically morning A time was 3 hrs, and nap was short at just 1 hr again (normally 1 1/2 hrs) and I knew she was still very tired when she woke so thought id stick to 3 hrs A time instead of pushing my luck!!

so anyway yet again she was showing tired signs as always about 2 hrs rubbing eyes yawning but I know 2 hrs is way too short so I kept her up but thought id try BF her a bit at 2 hr 15 A time to try and judge how tired she was...she gets sleepy looking if she is tired and if not she feeds and keeps breaking away for a look around!!

so anyway she only went and fell asleep at 2 hr 30??!!!!

so I took her up and cuddles her and put her down...she cried really hard...thought maybe UT but kept her in her room and slow danced with her for 10 mins and then put her back down ...she cuddled teddy and off to sleep she went!!! and then suprise suprise she woke at 30 mins so again would normally think UT but instead stayed in her room and held her down really firmly and she settled and I kept pressure on her for about 10 mins...I felt her body jolting through the stages so this confirmed it...OT!!!!

she slept for another 40 mins then cried again...I went in and did the same again...20 mins I stayed with her for!! she kept jolting and crying every few minutes...I just kept holding her down!! think she will wake any minute cos she still cant get into deep sleep poor thing!!

If she was UT I know there is no way id get her back settled to sleep!

So now not really sure what to do ...think maybe need to work on first A time ...keep that shorter to avoid OT and then A time should be easier for next nap...

today proved that even the 2 hr 45 A time was OT but 2 hr 30 is too short so need to get out of this OT loop before anything gets resolved!!

my back is killing me now!!

so im now thinking when I started pushing that first nap forward I did it too fast and then when she woke early in morning I tried to keep to 10am nap so day was stretched out right which worked great at first lovely long naps...but they were cos she was rested from the full nights sleep so she didnt get the jolts so bad...the extra time from first A then crept into the second as OT and made the second A time shorter which I didnt do (thinking a nice long nap had worked!!) so then the whole day was OT and each day just carried an extra half hour OT then naps got shorter and shorter because of it and here I am today with this nightmare!!

phew...that was alot to get out!!! Think I have OCD over her sleep but I feel absolutely confident that I have figured out the problem now so I can start back tracking to sort it out....may take a while but I will get there!!

thankyou so much you kept triggering things in my mind which helped me think it through!!!

Annette.xx

p.s...bet you think im mad now!!!!

[samypoo]

No, I don't think you are mad. I think you have figured out the problem exactly. It always sounded to me like OT was creeping in somewhere in the day and for it to be first thing in the day was setting the whole day up for disaster.
Do what you can to get your little angel well rested and don't worry about the clock too much, if she seems really tired at 2hrs just put her down.
I've learnt that if my LO woke early from a bad night keeping the first nap at the same time to keep the day the same, wasn't the best idea. But if I put her down when she was tired then let her sleep till her usual wakeup time, she woke well rested and recovered from the bad night.

If I remember correctly, this was my LO routine at that age:

7am wake
9:30 - 11am nap
2-3:30 nap
6/6:30 bedtime

Maybe having an earlier bedtime would help get you on top of the OT.

[annette.xx]

so the early bedtime didnt make her wake before 7? I always find that when i put her bed at say 6.30 she wakes at 6am!! it always seems to be 11.5 hrs night whatever I do!!

Annette.xx

[samypoo]

Sometimes she did wake earlier, sometimes not especially if we got into an OT cycle, she then tended to still wake at her usual time. But the nights always seemed better if she didn't get OT before bedtime and I always thought I'd rather have a full nights sleep and wake early than have to get up every couple hours in the night.
Even just a couple early nights (if she looks like she needs it) might help, then slowly push it back to the normal bedtime.
At that age my LO couldn't cope with more than 3hrs A time especially before bed and once we stopped the catnap her bedtime moved from 7pm to 6/6:30pm and it stayed like that for quite a few months. The maximum A time she ever had was 3hrs and that was when she was well rested, having full naps and sleeping through the night. Your LO is OT, she might find that 3hrs is too long especially if she just had a short nap or restless night.
I would also suggest that at the moment you let your LO sleep as long as she wants in the am nap, just for a few days until you get on top of things.

Good luck...hope you have a better day today! I'm sure you will now that you know what the problem is you can focus on the solution.

[annette.xx]

thanks for being there for me!

bedtime settling was horrendous last night...I put her bed early at 6.30 and she fought sleep until after 7pm...she was definately OT...

and consequently we had EW this morning at 5.30!! only going to make the OT worse

Anyway I tried my hardest to get back on track and refused to start the day there so I tried settling her for ages to no avail so gave up and BF her a bit and put her back down...she cried really angrily for about 5 to 10 mins ...not desperate cry more like ''why am i not getting my own way'' cry!! so I left her and she went back to sleep!! yay!!

started day at 7.30 and after 2 hrs and 15 mins took her away from toys and took her upstairs and layed on bed with her playing with soft teddys gently...she wasnt looking tired at all then after a while I noticed she looked more playful and started laughing and waving the teddy around...I then noticed she wasnt even looking at it just waving it in her arms...this must be her tired sign!! So bed it was...again she cried for 5 mins but I left her to it and she went to sleep...when I went back down and looked at the time it was 2 hr45 mins (I had refused to look at time when I took her up wanted to follow her lead)...

im guessing she will still wake at 1 hr as she has done this last few days...im going to try and extend...

fingers crossed for today...im scared which way its going to go!!

Annette.xx

[samypoo]

You'll be fine. Good on you for following her signs and not the clock. I'm quite a structured person myself and at times found (and still do) that I was paying more attention to the time than to the baby.
Sounds like you're totally on the right track....sleep, sleep and more sleep 

[annette.xx]

well she slept for nearly 2 hrs this morning!!! ...

but then I did the same again this afternoon and it all went wrong again...yet again a 20 minute nap...I extended with alot of stroking her hair and hand on back...she only managed another 20 mins then she woke and I tried to extend again but she was up on all fours and stopped crying and sat there staring at me quite content so Im wondering whether I put her down UT for that nap???

But im not going to worry too much about it im going to carry on like this for a few days and see what I pick up on!!

it was really weird in the afternoon tho cos she started getting fussy and doing exactly the same waving her arms around like earlier at just 2 hrs A time so I took her upstairs and kept her calm for a bit reading etc ...thinking if I put her down then she would just be way too UT ...she didnt look at all tired but she was getting all jolty and losing interest in her toys again so after just a short while I put her to bed...she sceamed the place down when I left the room...worse than normal...

and I had to go back in and AP her to sleep by holding her and slow dancing for a bit...she cuddled into my shoulder like she does when she is really tired and after a few minutes I put her back in cot and she cuddled teddy had a little moan I patted her and off she went!!

so do you think she was genuinely tired and ready at 2 hrs and I missed the window making her OT when I put her down hence the crying or do you think she was UT and was crying cos she wasnt ready and was angry with me?!!!!!!!

im confused but I will keep going and see what I end up with!!

she took ages to settle this evening and I had to keep going back to her...the last time I went in she was screaming for me and then when I went in and put hand on back she got up on fours again and just looked at me....

I left and she didnt cry for me just had a moan and roll about for another 30 mins!! im guessing another EW!!!

never mind!
Annette.xx

[samypoo]

I think it takes a few days to get on top of the OT but it does sound like she was genuinely tired at 2hrs, if she was UT she wouldn't have gone back to sleep. Sometimes they just need a bit of help getting of to sleep and staying asleep, for whatever reason. Doesn't necessarily always have to be OT or UT.
She's had a rough time lately and she probably just needs some time to catch up on some sleep and get settled into a routine again.
If she only had 40min pm nap, what time did you put her to bed?

[annette.xx]

Hi

I put her to bed at 6.20pm and she cried for me...I went back in to settle her and she was trying to crawl round the cot and just wanted me there with her...so I kissed her and left said ''its not playtime silly go to sleep!!'' and she was still moaning (not crying) to herself until 7pm!!

luckily no EW so that was good!

have you ever used PU/PD? Im thinking about using it for nap settling as think it is part of the problem that she now doesnt like being left to it so she calls on me and then it takes ages to get her to sleep causing OT...

so if I used PU/PD it would teach her how to calm herself down without me always comforting her...

what do you think?

Annette.xx

[samypoo]

I know people who have had success with it but it didn't work with my LO. She totally flipped out whenever I put her back down again. It really seemed to wind her up so I had to find a way to settle her without picking her up. This is what worked for me:

At first I sat with my hand on her and said calming words until she calmed down and was dead asleep then I left. Sometimes she screamed blue murder but I still didn't pick her up cause I knew she would freak when I put her back down. She learnt she wasn't going to get picked up but knew I was still there for her. Eventually I could leave sooner and sooner. If she cried for me when I left I came back but just till she calmed down and stopped crying then I left again. If she got OT in the process I would have to stay till she was fast asleep because the jolts would make falling asleep very difficult for her. Sometimes it felt like I had come and gone like 50 times. It did get better though and now I can just put her down and walk out and she goes straight to sleep. It wasn't easy and I had to be consistent or I don't think it would have worked.
I think you just have to find what works for you, I could see how some babies might get wound up if you came and went all the time.

[annette.xx]

you are so good at all this mummy stuff!!

thankyou thats really helpful!!

today has been a nightmare...pm nap was 20 mins yet again...couldnt extend..impossible and she was wide awake and looking at me again so took her downstairs and ended up taking her for a long walk in the hope she would fall asleep again...

no joy....she woke from the 20 min nap at 2.24 and I got her down to bed at 5.55pm...followed your advice to just go with the earlier bedtime to compensate...think it may have been too late still but her nan and grandad came to see her so that was soonest I could make it...

Im still wondering whether all these settling issues and wake ups at 20 mins are cos she just wasnt ready to be put to bed...I know here I go again!! Ive done 3 days of earlier A times ...im going to try a little later for pm nap tomorrow...dont worry just a little extra!! after all I have nothing to lose as im only getting 20 mins now!!

im so happy to have found you to vent too!! You are so good at BW...im so jealous!!

Annette.xx

[samypoo]

You learn a lot looking back but going forward is still an unkown. I'm going through the 2 - 1 nap transition at the moment and it has taken awhile to get my head around it. Just when you think everything is going so well suddenly it all changes and you have no idea what you're doing again! Haha...that's just life I suppose and the joys of being a Mummy.

As your LO catches up on sleep she may be ready for longer A times, just go with your instinct. Mummy always knows best! and like you said you've got nothing to lose but just go slowly. Add 15 mins for few days and see what happens if nothing improves add another 15 min.

I have just been in a similar situation. My LO showed signs of being ready for 1 nap but I think I increased her A time too fast for her liking and she got OT so I had to reduce her A time to less than it was before, for her to catch up. Now she's not napping so well again, a sign I think that she is ready for her A time to be increased again. This time I will go SLOWLY!!!

[annette.xx]

im going to add 15 mins today...I will let you know how it goes...

NW last night for 2 hrs so I need to get this sorted!! Im thing the pm nap was UT causing major OT at bedtime...and I think 5.55 wasnt early enough...even if it ends up being 5pm tonight im not letting her stay awake more than 3 hrs A in the evening!!!

fingers crossed!!

Annette.xx