Please help for 9.5 mo multiple NWs again

[Rileysmum]

So a history of our DS.  Started sleeping 8-10 hour stretches at 5.5 weeks, then at 3 months we started getting multiple NWs, EWs, and problems with naps.  Since then we seem to have a few good days or maybe a week or two (usually after help from the lovely ladies on here  ) then everything will go bad again for weeks.  So he is now 9.5 months, and we have had a really bad few weeks, and I would appreciate help again.  He just had a whole bunch of teeth come in, which is why I waited to ask for help.  I think *fingers crossed* that he is done for a bit, so it would be great if we could get in a good routine again, as he is seriously OT.  He does have reflux, but for the last couple months it has not seemed to bother him much, and he is eating quite a bit better.  He has a lovey, but does not have a paci.  I have been APing him to sleep a lot because of the teething.  And teething. And teething, etc.    He will still fall back asleep on his own sometimes, and sometimes seems to need the AP.
Our routine yesterday was:

7:00a Wake
10:30-12:30 Sleep
4:00-5:00 Sleep
8:00pm put him to bed, but he didn't fall asleep until 9:30  

I tried cutting his second nap to 45 min today, thinking he got too much sleep yesterday, but he still didn't fall asleep until 9:00.

I know the second nap is really late, but it is becoming more of a catnap than an actual nap (I think he is starting his 2-1 transition).

Last night after he fell asleep at 9:30, he slept for 45min, then woke up, and after that would wake up every half an hour until midnight.  At midnight he woke up and was up until 1:20am, then fell asleep until 3:00, fell back asleep until 5:00, up again at 5:30, and then from 6:00 until 7:00 he was up every 10 minutes.

His naps seem to be fine, it just seems to be the NWs.  When he wakes up, he will sometimes put himself back to sleep, or he will sit up in his crib and scream/cry until I go and get him.  Then I have to rock him for awhile while he moans/whines before he will fall back asleep.

I am also wondering if him taking so long to fall asleep at bedtime has anything to do with the fact that DH puts DS to bed when he gets home from work early enough.  Tonight he had DS for about 50min and couldn't get him to fall asleep, so I went in and DS fell asleep about 7 min later.

I would appreciate any insights!  

[JJshappymum]

Just wanted to let you know that DS is the same age and we are having multiple NW, EW short naps...your are not alone. Hang in there!

Hugs

[Rileysmum]

JJshappymum, thanks, the hugs are appreciated.   

He only got about 2 hours in naps today (1.5hrs for his first nap, and 38min for his second  ) so we will see how tonight goes...

[aimeeL]

We went through a really rough patch, too, right at around this age... L would either a) really fight bedtime and it would take an hour or so of PU/PD or WIWO... or b) go down easily, but only for 30-45 min and then stand up and cry...and for us, what helped was me finally figuring out that she was OT at bt, EVEN THOUGH she had a decent pm nap and the A time wasn't long... she was doing about 3.25-3.5 hr A time at that point (still is, actually), but I cut her last A time to 2.75 hr and that did the trick... was sort of a huge paradigm shift, but it worked fabulously.  Even now, 1.5 mo later, that A time is still the shortest - although we've been creeping back up now to almost 3 hr 20 min... and that's AFTER a good long 1.5 hr pm nap...

So anyways - that's our experience, FWIW...

[Rileysmum]

aimeeL, thanks for the idea.  I will try giving a shorter A time before bed tonight, and see if that makes a difference. 

I am pretty sure there is another tooth coming in *sigh*.  And DS has been practicing standing a lot the last couple of days, so I have cut all of his A times back, but there hasn't been a change yet. 

[aimeeL]

L is teething, too, but it's affecting her appetite and THAT'S driving me nuts.. if it's not one thing, it's another, right?

Hang in there - hopefully this will pass quickly... keep us posted!

[*Liz*]

What type of AP have you being doing? I know teething is a pain but lots of AP can lead to prop issues - and when they are teething so often between 6 and 18 mths it is sometimes hard to know what to do for the best.

I think your lo is fighting bedtime as he is having a bit too much daytime sleep, and this is the start of the 2-1 transition.

Does your lo usually like a long or short A to bed?

Aimee may be right about needing slightly less than 3hrs after an hour nap, but some los are almost totally rested on that and will need their full A.

Try shortening by 15 mins for 3 days and if that doesn't help I would cut to a 45 min pm catnap with 3hrs A to bedtime and see if that helps.

Need to make sure it is not a prop issue though 

[Rileysmum]

aimeeL, {{hugs}} on the reduction in appetite.  Hope the tooth/teeth come through for you soon!

LizJ,  I have been rocking him to sleep (we have a rocking chair in his room) for AP.  I am pretty sure it isn't the AP, as I don't always AP him to sleep, only sometimes.  By APing, I mean I rock with him in the chair until he is drowsy, then put him down.  He is almost always still a bit awake, he will usually roll a couple of times, or yawn before he is quiet.  Even if he falls asleep on his own (when I put him in his crib completely awake), he is still up all the time.  The last few nights it has been every hour.  He is teething, and starting to practise standing supported a bit more, so I'm not sure if those have anything to do with it.  For a couple of weeks he was getting up every night at midnight, 3:00, and 5:00, but putting himself back to sleep almost every time.  Then he got to the point where he was getting up every half an hour, and it was taking anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour and a half to get him back to sleep.  Then things improved a bit, and then went downhill again.  

He used to like a longer A time before bed, but he is so OT now, I'm not sure what to do.  

About a month ago he did 3.5hrs for each of his A times for about 3 days, then we had a massive teething explosion, and I haven't been able to get the correct A times before bedtime since.  Yesterday his first A time was 3hr15, and he had a 1hr30min nap.  Today he woke at 5:30, and just kept crying, but we kept trying until just before 7:00 to get him back down.  So by the time he got bottle, breakfast, ready for his day, etc, etc, he ended up with a 4hr45min A time, and had a 1hr25min nap.      Except for one short nap yesterday, his naps have been pretty good.  I just really want to get the NWs under control!

I'm going to try and give him a 3hr A time before bed tonight, so we will see how that goes.  Wish me luck!  

How much daytime sleep do you think I should aim for?  1hr30min nap AM, and 45min nap PM?

Thanks for your help!  

[Rileysmum]

So by the time he actually fell asleep, he had a 3hr40min A time before bedtime.  We will see how the night is.   

[*Liz*]

I would aim to find the right A to keep that 2 hr am nap, and then cut to 45 mins in the pm. However it is common for LO's to only do 1.5hr naps at this age.

Basically you need to search out the right A time to bed and the right total amount of daytime sleep. 2.5hrs was about right for us at 9 mths - although 2.25hrs was fine really as well.

A time bedfore bed for me is about 3hrs after a 45 min nap. I do long am/ short pm as well.

The rocking sounds OK at the moment - but just keep an eye on it. These LO's develop habits very quickly at this age!!

[Rileysmum]

Thanks Liz!

I will aim for that for the next few days, and see how it goes.  Naps have been getting shorter and shorter the last couple days, which I really hope is due to teething and milestones.  *fingers crossed*  Hopefully after that we will be getting better naps again. 

[londonmama]

Rileysmum...oh my word, I could have written your post.  Same age, same problems, same teething (plus an ear infection thrown in for good measure!).  Last night was up every hour after midnight, and for almost an hour at 3 am.  My DH is away and I am exhausted.  This morning he woke at 5:45 (fair enough, he was in bed for 6 pm last night) and I ended up breastfeeding him in my bed and we both fell asleep until 7:30!  Ooops.  Really hope this doesn't mean he thinks nightfeeding is back on as we stopped feeding at night over 6 weeks ago.

Yesterday I tried an experiment of cutting short the AM nap (30 mins) and trying to get a longer PM nap in the buggy (1 hr 20 mins).  It seemed to go well during the day, but last night was hideous so not doing that again.  My DS naturally naps well in the AM (usually 1 hr 20 mins...almost never longer) but PM is often just 30 mins, with all different A times, even in the buggy.  He almost never accepts a late PM catnap anymore.  Which means he is often awake from 2 until bedtime (6 or 6:30) and I think is totally OT.

Ahhhhhh!

[Rileysmum]

londonmama, {{{{{Hugs}}}}} Your poor LO, teething and an ear infection!   You must be having great fun.

I have accidentally been letting my LO sleep in the last couple of days as well.    By the time 7 rolls around, I'm just not ready to get up.  Probably not helping his routine. 

We were having great naps until a couple of days ago.  Now they just keep getting shorter and shorter. Today they were an hour.

I think maybe we need a support thread for the tired mamas of LOs in our age range.  There are a lot more than I thought there would be!

I just want to second your Ahhhh! and maybe add a Grrrr! Good luck tonight, let me know how it goes! 

[aimeeL]

I've been wondering how you're doing, Rileysmum...!  So no luck with the shorter A time before bed, huh? =(  Are nights better, though?

[Rileysmum]

Hi aimeeL! I have been aiming for a 3 hr A time before bedtime to see if that would help, but he still won't fall asleep until a 3.5 to 4 hr A time has passed.  That has happened all 3 nights we have tried.  I'm not sure if I should try reducing it further and try the 2.75?

Last night was the best night we have had in weeks.  He got up every 1.5 hrs until midnight, up again at 1 (and was up for almost an hr), but then didn't hear a peep from him until 6.      Of course he didn't fall back asleep until right before 7, which is why we both slept in, but it was great to get 4 straight hours of sleep! 

His naps have been getting worse now though, so I am almost wondering if his A times are too short, and I should try increasing them.  I'm gonna try the short A times for a few more days to see if it helps, but if not, I may try extending.  (We are still having teething, and now a reflux flare as well, so I don't want to increase them yet.)  What do you think?

How is your LOs teething going? Any increase in appetite yet?