Could you help me with A time/routine for 16 week old

[~Lori~]

We have been stuck in 35 minute naps for over 1 month now, with my nearly 16 week DS.  I've thought OT, but also UT as his awake time was on the lower end.  We have been trying to add awake time for about 4-5 weeks now, and we are still stuck in 35 min naps, regardless of the A time.  DS is a touchy sleeper (textbook/angel baby) and sleeps on his side in a side positioner, white noise, shades drawn.  We stopped swaddling him at 2 mths since we didn't really see any improvement in his naps.  I have swaddled him for all naps today and some yesterday and he did have a 1.5hr nap yesterday afternoon(after 1hr15min awake time), but all 35 min naps today.

I guess I was wondering if I could have a little help in establishing a routine.  With so many short naps, it is hard to stay consistent.  I know A time for this age is around 1hr20-1hr30, so we have been working towards that, but still short naps.  Also, how long would you try to extend a short nap before getting him up?  What I did today, was try to extend for 20 min, when that didn't work, I got him up, lowkey A time, then put him down early and got another 35 min nap out of him before Eat time.  With him being "touchy" for sleeping, it's hard to know when he is OT/UT or just responding to his jolts (he has 3 little jolts at around 33 min, and a big jolt at 35 min).  I have tried HTTJ only once (need to keep doing that), and haven't done W2S yet, although I am interested to know if that works for naps.

Pretty much we are on an every 3hr (sometimes 3.5hr depending on naps) routine, with a wake up time of 7:30 (shooting for this) and a bedtime of 7:30.  We are doing a DF at 10-10:30 and then he wakes up in the night to eat.  Trying not to feed him til 4, so nights when he wakes early, we try the paci for awhile, sometimes works, sometimes not.

So this is a lot, but if you could help me, that would be great.  Right now he is at about 1hr10-1hr15min A time in the morning.

[lilalley]

Lori... here we are again.  I had 2 weeks of the best naps, but now were right back to 45 min. naps too.  I swear I do the same thing.  UT? OT? Our routine is all over the place due to naps.  What gives?  Your daughter did this too until 5-6 months?  Good luck to us.

[~Lori~]

It is hard to figure out!

This morning so far:

7:30 Wake him up/Eat
8:53 Sleep  (1 hr23min A time---went down easily, showed sleepy cues, walked around with him calmly/quietly for awhile)
9:38 Awake (45 min nap---let him talk/fuss in his room for a bit, gave him paci at 9:20...quiet now, not sure if sleeping.)

So this is new thing...an actual 45 min nap, not a 35 min one.  how would you suggest me tweaking this schedule?

[lilalley]

After tweeking schedules like a scientist.  I'm not sure the schedule is the answer.  What do I know.  All I know is she hasn't been able to EAS like the book says but for maybe 2 weeks total in all her 3.5 months.  Frustrating...  I'm willing to try anything.

[~Lori~]

well, for his 2nd nap, he woke up at 35 min, but (I wasn't home), I had DH make sure he was IN THE ROOM at 35 min and as soon as he woke up, give the paci.  He did that, and DS went right back to sleep and so far has been sleeping 1.5 hrs!!!  Just relieved he went back to sleep without 20-30 min of fighting it

[lilalley]

too funny.  We just got done with a 2 hour nap!  Had to use the swing.  Haven't used that forever.

[lilalley]

Anyone else have some A time or other advice?

[Tweakster]

Hi gals, hugs hugs hugs!

16 weeks is heading into 4 months which is very wonky (I mean they are ALL wonky months aren't they but we like to take it month to month around here)...it's a GS...it's teething...it's sleep regression...it's usually a jump in their A time and a need for a 4 hour routine.

However, many LO's 'didn't get the memo'.  They are more aware, getting cool new moves, finding vocals, and generally throw every possible spanner in the works.  So as I had to do with Finn you may have to gently push them towards longer A times...and yes it is a juggling act and not fun and lots of short naps but at the end of month 4 and into month 5 things got better.  Of course we are off on a 6 month wonk but that's for another post.

A time for 4 months = 1 hour and 45 - 2 hours.  Sleep is 2x 1.5 - 2 hour naps (yeah right) and the CN (usually 45 mins)...10 - 12 hours at night...or think of it like about 4 hours of day sleep and 10 - 12 at night.  So your LO's are possibly at 1 hr 30 and then some.  The morning A is usually shorter, for us it was 1/2 hour shorter...but now managed to squeeze him another 15 mins and he did 1.5 this morning.  It's all trial and error...well you already know that :-)

Lori...you did the right thing...there were days I never left the room after a short nap.  If I could not extend, I got him up and we just played and then he ate (if it was time) and then right back into wind down.  I am wondering if your LO is ahead of his time?  What happens if you push his A time even further?  With Finn I pushed him quite a bit lately and have gotten longer naps.  Not every day mind, but I still see it as a small victory for our team.  We had an OT spell and it wasn't pretty...but after the aftermath, he could do those A times.

Tanner's morning nap could have been UT and then OT by the next...what was his A time following that 45 min nap?

lilalley...45 mins is normally UT for a lot of LO's.  Have you tried a push in A time too? 

The problem is when LO's short nap (either due to UT or developmental) and we don't adjust A times they get OT and then it becomes impossible.
Think of it like UT can cause OT.  Cause and effect.

The only time Finn has done 2 hours is when he isn't feeling well (like after his jabs this week or in a GS) - when he does 1.5 hours I throw a party and I know it is because of the correct amount of A time.  I can tell because he is easier to put down and stays down, I don't hear anything but sleep on the monitor and he does not wake up crying.  So for us correct A = 1.5 hour nap just as EASY promotes. 

I'm trying to remember back when...16 weeks was still the hardcore shush/pat and dark days spent in his room...I think for us it was something crazy like:
Awake & E 6:00
A
S 7:30 - 9 (he had a really hard time with the morning A time push...but I really forced the issue because he refused the CN most days) - this is the only nap that has ever gone well (and continues to go well) for us
A
E 10:00
A
S 10:30 - 11:00 (try to extend)
A
S 12:00 - 12:30 (try to extend)
A
E 1:00
A
S 1:30
and so on...it really depended on the naps for us...towards the end of the day I cut way back on A times because he was tired, fussy, your basic nightmare...and after a short nap got progressively worse.  So normally could not get in a CN but would be able to push the final A time and do an early bedtime with starting bedtime routine very early and sneaking in minutes that way. Plus it was like once he knew bedtime routine was starting he relaxed a bit...like 'ahhh those dingbats are finally putting me to bed'.

If you guys post the routines we can take a look. 

[~Lori~]

thanks Wendy.  Tanner is a touchy so it seems that when I add time, it throws him off so much!  I really can't go by sleep cues much b/c he is showing some as early as 45min awake!!  Today, he was all cuddly on my shoulder at 1hr5min and I was trying to push him off a bit more.

for his 2nd nap, his A time was LONG (after that 45 min nap).  I was winding him down and then my 3 year old got home with Daddy and was so hyper/loud, I had to start winding DS down again.  He probably got to 1hr45 min A time because of that.  He woke up at 35 minutes (expected) but this was the nap that DH was in and gave paci right away and he slept another 1.5 hrs on top of that 1st 35 minute chunk. 

I am still trying to get to 1.5hrs A time.  The first nap hasn't gone past 35-45 min, or really able to extend it for weeks now so I KNOW something is off.  I have tried A time from 50 min up to 1.5hrs and short.  HOWEVER, one morning when I had a meeting, I dropped him off at my grandmas and by the time he was down for his nap it had been 1hr40 min awake and he did take a 2 hr nap....hmmm...

Would you suggest me trying a 1.5 hr A time in the morning tomorrow?  should I push out his other A times tomorrow too, or just do the first one at 1.5?

[Tweakster]

Hi there, I would say that if he did take a 2 hour nap after 1 hr 40 it's worth a shot to extend him to 1 hr 40 at your place and see what happens.  Did your grandma do anything different to you to get him to sleep?  Any major differences in the room conditions?  And then he did another long nap (albeit with the paci) but still he was clearly able to sleep a good nap after 1 hr 45.

Remember if you get a good nap you can usually extend the next A time slightly but if you get a short nap, you will have to cut back on A time rather than extending it.  So like if he did 1 hr 40 and you got a good nap...try 1 hr 40 at the next nap.  Then if he short naps...you could cut back by 15 or 20 mins and see what happens.  Then by later in the day if you fear he is OT cut way back and try earlier bedtime.

Some LO's are just very very sensitive to A times.

[~Lori~]

Thanks Wendy.

This mornings nap we did 1hr30 A time, and he woke up at35 min, quick paci insert and back down for another1hr5.
2nd nap, he was VERY tired.  Hard to keep him up. Sleeping by 1hr20. Woke up at 35min, gave paci, back down.  Woke up another 35 min later, back down.  So at least he is going back down but he is stuck at 35 min.

I was the one who got him to sleep at my grandma's and the only thing I did different was hardly any wind down, lol, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I think he tired himself out screaming in the car on the way to her house

[lilalley]

We've been trying nearly 2 hours A time these last couple of days.  We have been having better naps. 2x45min.  and 4x 1.5 hrs+  I also was able to reroute a 45 min. nap with a little bouncing.  That's a first.  I bounce about a min. and a half then put her down awake it seems to calm her then she will go to sleep.  Is that going to lead me to trouble?

[lilalley]

Lori, it's funny to me that for some time now we have been dealing with similar nap issues.  But it does help me to know that the solution for each of our LOs is often different.  Such as A times this month. 

I did notice when I amp up the Activity for A time, like grocery store, etc.  She seems to handle naps better.  Did you say he screamed his head off before a good nap at grandma's?  Do you need to amp up the type of activity? or does your DD do that for you already?

It makes me realize that there is a wider window to the textbook schedule.

[*Liz*]

Hi ladies.

Wendy is giving you some SUPER advice and it sounds as though you are making some progress.

There is a developmental issue with short napping at this age where they have not learnt how to go from deep sleep to ligt sleep and back into deep sleep again. So they wake up. So it isn't always the routine - it is learning how to transition the sleep cycles. The jolts start at 35 mins again and last until about 45 mins. So HTTJ can help, or shh/ptting through.

If your lo is touchy you will need to extend A by only 5 mins at a time instead over the usual 10-15. Touchy los just can't handle the bigger jumps. That way they don't notice you are doing it as much.

[~Lori~]

ahhhhh, so the wake ups at 35 minutes don't necessarily mean OT/UT??  See, this is where I was getting stressed, b/c it seemed like no matter what, we got that!

This morning I tried HTTJ...for 30 minutes!  my back was KILLING me, lol.  BUT, LO never fully woke up, and did end up sleeping 1.5hrs.  I know I can't expect it every time, but I am just relieved to finally have gotten the first nap past 35 minutes.

Would you suggest Wake 2 sleep as an option?  Do you notice if that makes the jolts less "Startling"?  Because in being in my son's room for that long this morning, I notice that he has SO many little jolts/squirms.   When do these jolts become less, or at least become so that they don't wake up from them?  I swear, my LO is the only baby out of my 3 friends who've had babies within 2 weeks of when he was born, that does this.  They don't seem to jolt or have issues with the short naps.