Author Topic: Napping only when held..!  (Read 2623 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Yazzie

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 63
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3562
  • Mummy's angel
  • Location: Cairo, Egypt
Napping only when held..!
« on: September 22, 2009, 20:27:19 pm »
Hi everyone, I'm a new mum of 3 months old Adam.

Just found out about the BW, as we've been having lots of problem with naps. My baby is great when it comes to night sleep, he can get to sleep, in his crib on his own, however, we have major problem with naps.

First of all, his naps are no longer than 45 mins to 1hr and he's normally carried. When I try to put him down he'd wake up 50% of the time. Another thing, he eats every 3 and a half hrs, but that's v.hard with his short naps..!

Could anyone suggest  what i can do to extend nap times and give me sample routines.

Thanks..:)
Adam's Mum




Offline *Jo*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 148
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7314
  • 3 wee monkeys and a Mamma
  • Location:
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 02:23:48 am »
Hi there and welcome to BW!!!

Can you post your routine in EASY format to have a look at please? do you put him into his cot awake or asleep?

Thanks

Jo





Offline Yazzie

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 63
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3562
  • Mummy's angel
  • Location: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 15:09:47 pm »
Hi Jo,

Thx for the response..:)

Adam's routine for yesterday was like this:

E:08.15 AM
and then continue sleeping

E:12.00 PM
A: 12.15 PM
S : 01.00 PM

wakes up at 2.00 PM & plays till next E time

E: 3.00 PM
start winddown after meal
S: 3.30 PM
awake after 45mins, @ 4.15 pm

showed signs of sleep around 5.00 PM, so i trued putting him to sleep
, but didn't work , so he stayed awake till the next E time
E: 6.10 PM
S: 6.20 PM
he stayed asleep for 40 mins and woke up at 7.00, stayed up for 30 mins and then started showing signs of wanting to sleep, so his dad carried him till he feel asleep at 8 and kept carrying him for 2 hrs so that he'd stay asleep
E: 10.00 PM
he then stayed awake till his shower and putting him to bed @ 12.30 AM, he stirred at 01.00 AM for his feed and was
off till 07.00 AM this morning.

For his night sleep, he's in his cot awake, but sleepy and it takes him abt 15 mins to 20 mins to go to sleep, but his naps are screwed as he usually like to be held and then put down and of course if we missed his cues we end up carrying him through the entire nap.

I know things are messed up, help..:(
Adam's Mum




Offline *Jo*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 148
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7314
  • 3 wee monkeys and a Mamma
  • Location:
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 22:24:41 pm »
ok, do you have the BW book? it gives great details on how to transition from a 3-4 hour easy over the next month.

anyway, here is a link to some sample routines for you to look at: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10385.0

also for this age you are looking at an awake time of 1hour 20-30mins and A time is "eyes open to eyes closed" have a set wake up time and set bedtime to work with also helps greatly :)

Im wondering why he is having a shower at around midnight? this is far too late, ideally babies need to be in bed for the night around 6.30-8.30pm






Offline Yazzie

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 63
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3562
  • Mummy's angel
  • Location: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2009, 08:03:04 am »
Hi Jo,

Thx alot again..:)

We are a household of night owls, so normally go to bed after midnight, I know not right for my baby..:(..well, as I am trying to work on his routine I am also starting to adjust his sleep time to become in the range of 11-12 @ night, slowly working towards 8-9, or would you suggest doing it suddenly, I don't know any suggests would definitely help..:)

I got the book last week and am currently reading it, but do feel like I have soo much to catch up on..:(

So, could you please tell me where can i find the pages with for the 3-4 hr transition?

One last thing, just a thought if babies are supposed to get 14-15 hrs of sleep total at this age, if Adam sleeps 11 hrs of night sleep, wouldn't that leave only 3-4 hrs of naps and hence short naps?

Thanks again..:)
Adam's Mum..:D
Adam's Mum




Offline *Jo*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 148
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7314
  • 3 wee monkeys and a Mamma
  • Location:
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2009, 01:55:33 am »
Ok, so its all new to you, thats ok, thats why we are here, to guide you along! :)

Check out this board, it should answer a few of your questions

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=82.0

I understand what you mean with feeling like you have so much to catch up on, i read the first book really fast and then bought the second one "Baby Whisperer solves all your problems" which goes into much more detailed explanation of everything, i find this is the one i use as my reference most of the time.

Ok, i wouldnt jump suddenly to an early bedtime, it would be too much for him to handle, weve never had a late bedtime before so im not sure, and am hoping someone can come along that can help out with this but i know that doing it gradually is definately almost always the better approach.

for a 3 month old he should be doing 15-18 hours of sleep in total so if he is sleeping 12 hours at night (which he will ideally be doing) then he needs 3 naps in the day of 2 hours each with an awake time in between them of roughly 1 hour 30mins.








Offline *Jo*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 148
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7314
  • 3 wee monkeys and a Mamma
  • Location:
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2009, 22:09:12 pm »
By the way, im just gonna move your thread to the EASY board so that you can get some help with your routine, if you need more help on how to help your Little One sleep then just post a new one on the general sleep board





Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2009, 22:21:38 pm »
Actually I think you can easily shift him to an earlier bedtime by simply treating that 10 pm feed as a night feed and simply put him straight to bed afterwards.  Then your bedtime is around 6:30 or so, and all wakings after that will be treated as night feeds.  Babies don't truly need a bath every day, and boy a SHOWER at midnight is really going to rouse him rather than relax him and get him ready for sleep, LOL!!! If you feel like you *do* want to bathe him every day or nearly every day,  I would suggest doing it between 2nd and 3rd naps.  That way you can see if bathing rouses baby or relaxes him.  And I think I'd try warm baths at this age.

One of the most helpful things for getting your baby on a more traditional routine is to make sure you

1) Have a very consistent wind down routine.  We call them the "4 Ss".  You can find those in the FAQ section.  But wind down shouldn't really be more than about 5-10 minutes at this age.  It's not a long ritual, but it should be the same for each and every nap or bedtime.  Also, your bedtime ritual should very a little bit from your nap time one.  In our case at this age, our naptime ritual consisted of diaper change, swaddling, rocking with a song and then bed.  OUr night time ritual also involved a feed prior to diaper change (to tank him up) and then it also was done in a different room -- I wound him down in my room rather than in his room.   I also changed the wording a bit too.  For instance, from 2 weeks old until now (he's almost 4 yo!) I say right before leaving "Night-night Mr. Sun! We'll see you when our nap is done!" and then I turn out the light and/or shut the curtains.  At bedtime I say "Night night Mr. Sun! All our days' adventures are done! We'll see you in the morning!" and then turn out light/close curtains.  Obviously a child at this age doesn't nec.  understand the words, but they DO begin to memorize the cadence etc.  and by 6 months old you will see your child visibly relax when you say the ritual phrases.  It's quite amazing, really!

2) Make sure your 'night time' feedings are very business like.  In other words, no chatting, no interaction, just feeding in a darkened/dark room and then back to bed.  I always did our feeds in the dark.  My DH has poor night vision so he'd have a night light on.  Either way, you want to rouse the child as little as possible and keep the feeding conditions as sleep conducive as possible.  Don't even change diaper unless there's been a poo or diaper is just sopping wet.  This is just feeding your baby and putting them back to bed.  It won't take long before child is nearly asleep before he even hits the crib, LOL!



Tracy's books are wonderful so I really encourage you to look thru them.  One thing she talks about is how people who are NOT very routine oriented (which sounds like your household) can learn to provide routines for their children.  Let me tell you, a routine is a godsend for a child.  Imagine coming into a world and not understanding anything -- you can't talk, and even if you could you don't have a vocabulary; almost your entire day is spent encountering something you've never seen/heard/or done before!; just being touched by your parents involves a whole slew of sensations that your brain needs to catalogue and understand.  in other words, every day is a struggle.  I don't know if you've ever moved to a new town, but it can be so overwhelming! It's like that for a baby every single day!  So giving your baby a routine is like providing them a solid anchor in a see of unpredictability.  Soon your child begins to anticipate that when they wake up they get to eat.  Knowing when food is coming is VITAL to a child! Especially at this age when they need to eat so often!  Then they start realizing that when mommy puts the swaddle on it means sleep is coming soon.  Then you sing a song, and even tho they don't understand the words, the tune becomes familiar and that is another cue that sleep is going to come soon.  Their body starts to react to these cues -- their tummy wakes up along with their eyes because they've become conditioned to eating then; they become sleepy when they are swaddled and when they hear their sleepy song; they learn that after a bath mommy will rub them and snuggle them, etc. 

These little islands of predictability make the rest of their day make a little more sense.  Soon it doesn't feel like they are quite the stranger in a strange land that they thought they were;  they KNOW what is coming next and that must feel soooooo good when nothing else is predictable.  So think of the huge life preserver you are throwing your child by providing a routine.  You are meeting your child's needs but in a way that makes them feel like THEY are in charge 'cuz they know what's gonna happen.

And you'll probably find that being a night-owl family doesn't work as well with children.  My DH is a total night owl -- his preferred bedtime is 4 am.  That worked great when my son was small as he did all the night feeds and NWs.  But now that my son is older and involved in school and activities, that kind of lifestyle just doesn't work.  So DH is training himself to become a bit more of a daytime person.  It's hard! So adjusting now might make it easier once your child is a bit older.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 22:28:49 pm by becky1969 »
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline Yazzie

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 63
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3562
  • Mummy's angel
  • Location: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2009, 11:18:13 am »
Wow thx Becky for your thorough reply..:)

I am currently starting to work on our routine, though can't really say we have one in place yet.!

Good news is that i'v bought Tracy's book yesterday..BW solves all your problems and a starting to shift Adam's bedtime,so far it's between 11 & 12, still late i know..:)

I guess the other issue i'm dealing with is naps, his A time is abt 1.15 - 1.20 and i'm finding that when i catch him at the right intervals he goes to sleep easily, but the problem is that he wakes up abt 40-45 mins into the nap and seems to be done.

From monitoring him, i've come to think that that's when his first sleep cycle is done, but the problem is that he normally has had enough and doesn't want to sleep anymore..!..I've tried being in the room b4 the cycle ends and patting him through it or being there to pop the pacifier back in as soon as it fell, but neither worked..!..So, do u think i should just accept that this is his napping style although it throws the day off 'cause he end up going to S right after the following E..!..any thoughts?

I've also tried waking him earlier, after only 10 hrs of night sleep, but found it didn't work for him..!

Thanks,
Yasmine
Adam's Mum




Offline *Jo*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 148
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7314
  • 3 wee monkeys and a Mamma
  • Location:
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2009, 11:40:41 am »
Becky i love your explanation, did you write that yourself or is it in the book somewhere? I would love to show it to a few people who are not in the thinking of routines!





Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2009, 21:06:43 pm »
Just wrote it off the cuff yesterday!  As you can probably tell by my poor sentence structure and misspelled words! :)  You're welcome to use whatever you like!  

It makes total sense that when you time the nap correctly sleep comes easy.  That's how the sleep window works! And boy is that wonderful once you figure out what their window is.  It's important to remember in the first year they increase A time by about 15 minutes every 4 weeks until 6 months, and then by about 30 minutes every 4-6 weeks for the 2nd 6 months.  I had a textbook baby so I could almost set my clock by him, LOL.  His naps would get short, and I'd look at my log and sure enough it had been 4 weeks to the DAY since we increased A time!  ;D

It's possible that the 1h15-1h20 isn't *quite* long enough.  At this age, when A times are SO short, even 5 minutes makes a huge difference.  Don't worry; as As lengthen that window gets a little wider as well and you'll have more like 10-15 minutes to get it right.  :)  At any rate, the average for this age is around 1h30 minutes.  I think you're putting LO down to early and so he's shortnapping b/c he's UT (undertired).  Yup, if they're not OT they are UT, LOL!

So try lengthening A time a bit and see fi that doesn't work a little better!
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline Yazzie

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 63
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3562
  • Mummy's angel
  • Location: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2009, 23:50:47 pm »
You totally rock Becky..!!..:D

Another question, if he end up waking up early say @ 2 and his next feed is @ 4 (feeding every 3.30 hrs) , so do i try to let have a CN or feed him half an hr earlier?

Cheers,
Yasmine
Adam's Mum




Offline *Jo*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 148
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7314
  • 3 wee monkeys and a Mamma
  • Location:
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2009, 23:56:06 pm »
I would feed half an hour earlier so that if he does sleep he wont wake up early from nap from hunger, not sure though how it all fits in with the rest of your day though.

are you able to put up a routine sample of how your days are going at the moment?





Offline Yazzie

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 63
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3562
  • Mummy's angel
  • Location: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2009, 16:15:26 pm »
Hi ladies,

Thx again for your support..!

I'm still working on the routine, and can't seem to get things right  because of the never ending short naps..!..One positive thing though is that I'e stopped being a prop for my DS and he now falls asleep on his own, sometimes with patting & sometimes without, so that's one step forward..hurray..!..I'm reading Tracy's book and boy do I feel sorry for my kind because things were so messed up in the beginning..!

I'm trying to gradually put DS on a 4hr EASY, so this AM, he has A time of 1.75 mins and was down for 30 mins, when he woke up i fed him with hope that this would set things right, but after 1.30 mins of A time, he was down for only 35 mins..:(

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Yasmine
Adam's Mum




Offline becky1969

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 230
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4038
  • my favorite thing
  • Location: IDAHO
Re: Napping only when held..!
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2009, 16:35:44 pm »
1.75 is too long at 3 months.  It needs to be right around 1h30.  15 minutes is a HUGE difference at this age.  You got a short nap from being OT.  2nd A was probably closer to being right, but b/c of that short first nap he couldn't quite make a normal A -- I probably would have tried 1h15 after a 30 minute nap to get him back on track.
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!