10 w old refusing bedtime - should I move it earlier?

[sbnh]

Hi, we have been using EASY since she was 6 weeks old and have constantly been struggling with bedtime.  I've tried to move it earlier/later  - nothing seems to help. I typically swaddle her and end up walking around with her for up to 1 h before she falls asleep. Sometimes I even hold her for an additional 20 min to make sure she's in a deep sleep - but as soon as a I put her down, she wakes  up 10 min later.  During the day, she seem to go down drowy but awake when swaddled, but we don't seem to have luck at night. When she wakes up after falling asleep in my arms, she seems angry, fighting the swaddle etc. Her routine today was:

E: 705
S: 8-1010 (I often have to wake her at the 2 h mark)

E: 1015
S: 1120-155 (typically I wake her after 2 h but today I let her sleep.  It doesn't seem to make a difference with the night though)

E: 210
S: 330-430

E: 430
S: 530-611

E: 615
A: bedtime routine
E: 7
S: Then I walk with her and she fell asleep at 745 - up at 750.....walk again till 815 and put her down, up at 830..........

This tends to be our night.......finally after multiple attempts, holding her for upto 2 h she'll finally fall asleep around 11 pm.  She'll typically do 1 4 h stretch till 3 am, feed and go back to sleep, and then feed again at 5 and then at 7.

Any suggestions?
thanks
s

[sherry lynn]

Honestly the only thing that comes to mind is that she might just be getting too much daytime sleep. I'm not positive but I think the norm is about 5 hours at this age.

Plus your sleep is so heavy in the beginning of the day and it's low at the end.

so you might want to try waking her after 1.5 hours for each nap.

I think they do 3x1.5 hours and then the catnap.

So even though she is getting a lot of sleep during the day, she might still be OT because of the last two naps. Not sure though.

The only other thing that it might be is that you are a prop at bedtime, and  you might have to sleep train to break that. If you don't want to cut down on the sleep, maybe work on sleep training before cutting the daytime sleep. It's up to you

[sbnh]

Thanks for the advice,
I agree - she usually has had upto 5 h of daytime sleep by 3 pm and then the rest of the day/night is a struggle.

1. Do you think she is too young to sleep train?  It seems so easy to put her down in the day -but I bet that's because she is so tired. At night I have tried to put her down awake, but she just cries and then gets so worked up, it's hard to settle her. Any suggestions? She's a textbook/touchy baby and the shush patting seems to get her more worked up.

2. If I cut her naps down to 1.5 h, do I then extend her A time to keep on the 3 h EASY? She is really tired at the 50-60 min mark so I worry that it might be hard to extend it....

shelly

[sherry lynn]

Well.... she's definitely not too young to sleep train. I started at 8/10 weeks. It took a good, solid, very hard two weeks for pat/sh to finally work. But it eventually did.

Given her age I would think about starting to stretch those A times out, even just a little bit at first. Regardless of even the naps because you do want to start working towards about 1h10m-1h20m by 12 weeks. And close to 2 hours by 16 weeks.

So maybe even just start upping it by 5 minutes even.

Also maybe start slowly with cutting the naps if you are nervous. Do not let her sleep over 2 hours. I see that even on the first nap you let her sleep 2h10m. The more you let her sleep in the morning, the more she is making up for that lost nighttime sleep. You want to start shifting some of that to the night.

Maybe pick the first or the second nap to cut to 1.5 hours so that maybe on the third nap you can get her to sleep longer.

Also after looking at your routine again I think you should put her to bed earlier. Maybe even drop that cluster feed. I did the cluster feed for a really long time too, but really I think it's only intended for when they are going through growth spurts. She is getting up a few times at night anyways, even with it. So maybe drop that feed after the catnap. Use that time to give her a bath, etc. And put her down to bed earlier. That is her shortest nap, and her longest A time, so I'm sure she is OT and that's why she is giving you such a very hard time going down.

Maybe in bed by 7, 7:11 the latest?
 

[sbnh]

Thanks Sherry Lynn,
Yesterday was a bit better with her naps being 8-10, 1115-113, 240-340, 515-6pm, eat at 6, activity from 630-730 and then last feed at 745. She was asleep by 8 but then, as usual, didn't stay asleep.  She finally went down at 930 and then fed at 3am and was up for the day at 620. I kept her up until 720 and then down for first nap.

A couple of questions about the pat/shush and sleep training -

1. I read the bw and it suggests patting on the back - but my DD is swaddled and sleeps on her back - any suggestions on how to do the pat shush for back sleeping?

2. Also, how long should I do it for?  - I find that after about 5 min if she hasn't settled, picking her up is better otherwise she gets so worked up, swallows air then gets gassy or spits up etc.

thanks again for all your help. I'll try to cut back on her naps today by 10-15 min, but I think her day may be off since it started early at 620!

shellly

[sherry lynn]

I really would go for an earlier bedtime. I think she's OT and that's why she's waking at night.

My DS was also swaddled and on his back. He was fine with batting on his belly, just lightly. Some mom's roll them on to their side and pat that way. Sometimes we also patted his arm or chest.

That's a hard thing if she gets gassy. What about stroking her hair/head, or something like that while you shhhh.

I think I would just cut that first nap. Leave the second nap, and see if she'll sleep longer than an hour for that 3rd nap? Worth a shot. You might not want to cut from both naps for the first day.