lo goes from the 12 position to 9!

[Jiinx]

Hi everyone,
 It's 3:45 in the morning, and my dd has been restless from at least 2:30 (that's when I woke up!). She's not "up" but somehow went from the 12 o clock position to the 9 o clock position and is making noises with her mouth like she's eating something. She's desperately tired as I heard so many yawns. She's obviously uncomfortable - anyone have experience with this? Is it her diaper? She's swaddled so tightly that if I unswaddle her she'll wake up..plus taking her legs out of sleeper etc. She doesn't do ssh pat so if I woke her it would be a pacifer to soothe her to sleep at this point or a feed. Her diaper hasn't bothered her in the past..just in the last couple of days is she moving around in her cot. How she got there without actually rolling is quite remarkable..her cot is raised off the floor so perhaps she slid there?

this leads to one ot baby for the day...

[Tweakster]

Hi there, How old is your LO?  Finn started 'the clock' from around 12 weeks too...we had to unswaddle him because it was hindering more than helping.  Also he slept on a wedge and we had to remove it because he kept sliding down it.  By the end of all this clock business he started sleeping unswaddled, on his tummy and the wedge was gone.  Not everyone is comfy with putting LO on tummy but we found he slept better and was good for his reflux.

[Jiinx]

hi again wendy
she's 13 weeks today. I do want to put her on her tummy but scared, obviously.
I find if I don't swaddle her she'll conduct her own orchestra and end up smacking herself in the face....how did you get around that??

[koe2moe]

We didn't experience the 12 o'clock to 9 position issue but we started putting DS to sleep on his tummy since around 4 weeks.  He hated swaddling and he jolted himself awake all the time and couldn't stay sleeping at all.  We found out by experiment that sleeping on his tummy, he's very calm and restful. 

We were, of course, concerned as everyone was saying you shouldn't do that.  But since DS could move his neck since birth, and he saw that he could lift his head from side to side at 4 weeks, then we stopped worrying.  With your LO at 13 weeks, u have less to worry about.  Important thing is to make sure there is no pillow, soft toys or similar things present in his cot to avoid suffocation.

DS always hit his own face when he's tired.  I guess it's like he wanted to rub eyes coz he was sleepy but couldn't control his fists yet hahaha poor thing just got shocked and cried. 

Try watching her sleep in her nap while on her tummy and watches how she adjusts herself and moves.  You will get a feeling of whether or not it's safe.  Worse case is wait a few more weeks till you're confident, then try it.  When DS learned to roll over, he then slept on his back hahaha but couldn't fall asleep on his back, though. 

Lots of cultures practise tummy sleeping always.  Or you can get one of those Aerosleep to increase ventilation. 

HTH

[Tweakster]

TBH once Finn was on his tum his arms went straight out in front and he didn't hit himself as when he was back to sleep.  In the beginning we tried to put him on back unswaddled but that didn't work all that well.  He did still have quite an issue with the Moro and it really didn't look all that comfy to me.  So the first time we did it, DH flipped him on his tum after a NW and he slept about 5 hours solid lol.  Scared the c**p out of us but he was fine.

As pp mentioned, we had nothing in the crib.  Just his mattress with the fitted sheet on very tight.  And we leave his ceiling fan on all the time.  His room is the coolest in the house, usually between 20 - 22 degrees.

What you could do is try to leave one arm out of the swaddle so he gets used to it, a lot of people start with that.  I think there are some posts on the Props board about this.

[Jiinx]

thanks ladies
Koe2moe - I shall try it. With the winter months coming up though..not sure how to keep her warm as I don't want a blanket to suffocate her..our condo is cool as it is! I also want to tummy bc she may have acid and it might soothe her.
Wendy - I haven't let an arm out but when she manages to take one arm out she spends it rubbing her eyes and face even though she's asleep - I think it distracts her and doesn't allow her to get good sleep.

[tanya032009]

I'm sneaking in on this discussion Jinx because as you know, I have the same issues..same age, reflux, swaddle, etc. I wanted to try tummy sleeping as well.

Does anyone know exactly what the risk is? is it that the LOs will have their face down  in the sheet and not breathe properly and yet be unable to move? I guess I just don't get the whole air circulation concerns sometimes...especially when its recommended not to use bumber pads yet bassinets, which are much smaller and have fabric all the way round, are ok. Even so, I still follow the advice because I figure someone knows a lot more than I do!

[koe2moe]

Jlinx

We use sleeping bag.  No need to get special brand ones, but of course you can just that they are expensive   We have some local brands which are practically some bag shapes things.  If you want I can try and show u some photos.  But there are a lot such things in the market.  Try searching for baby sleeping bags. 

Tanya

Yeah all the concerns about soft stuff in the bed and tummy sleeping is to minimise the chance of SIDS or cot death.  Nobody knows what really caused it but at least preventing the chance of suffocation helps.  Try searching about it and there must be some good explanation out there

sorry i'm just too tired now... if u want more information, i can try again tomorrow.. just let me know

[Aleksandersmom]

My twin girls were swaddled until they got old enough to wriggle their way out of the swaddle, but one of them really hated having her feet in so I would leave her feet out and just swaddle her arms.  Then when she learned how to roll over at 3 1/2 months, she started sleeping on her tummy.  If your DD is hitting herself in the face, you could try just pinning her arms down and putting the swaddle around her torso while leaving her legs out.  That way she has enough freedom of movement to get comfortable without having to squirm but her arms can't flail around.  My girls also started sucking their thumbs so then I would just wrap the swaddle around them with their arms and legs out (it was like a blanket) for a week or two to wean them from having it around them.

[Jiinx]

thanks everyone I shall try all your suggestions.
Wow twins - twice the ssh pats and twice the nappy nightmares! Yikes..you're a soldier!
I'm going to try and google sleeping bags..

[Aleksandersmom]

Yeah, sleep training 2 is quite a bit different and at 6 months we're still working on it.  They are in the same crib which makes things even more difficult, but we're working on getting another one.  I love "nappy nighmares" -- that's a great term!  In our house we call them "poop explosions!"  I hope you get things straightened out with your beautiful baby girl!

[koe2moe]

lol @ Aleksandersmom!!! 

We also call most things explosions in ours LOL... be it mess DH and I create LOL

[Jiinx]

hey it's me again ladies it's the wee hours of the morning...
*sigh* so she hates being swaddled - she cries when I wrap her up. I tried tummy time when she was drowsy. I placed her on her tummy and she just lifted her head and started crying. However, she can sleep on me with her head on my shoulder.Poor thing, I don't know how to get her comfy.
 Also - for the ladies who started unswaddling their los - how did they know it's bedtime/nap time? My lo used to get drowsy as she got swaddled..do you just spend more time on the winddown?
I have one arm out of her swaddle (more like she fought it out) - but she keeps rubbing and scratching her face - is this normal? does she get "used" to being out of her swaddle and stop attacking her face? Aleksandersmom - going to try leaving her legs out tomorrow night and see if that helps.

[Tweakster]

Wow hugs.  We had to wean the swaddle early because he escaped from all of them, including the Miracle Blanket.  Plus he moved around the crib so much it just seemed pointless.  However, I was still swaddling his lower half for naps until recently - until 6 months.  Naps and night sleep are different animals.  For naps we needed swaddling, white noise and a good wind down.  For bedtime it is bath, bottle, bed and no issues really unless he is OT. 

Getting used to her hands is normal and developmental - she will get used to it but it does take them time.  One day she will be like 'hey look I have HANDS' and then they start to understand what they can do with them.

If her hands are still an issue I would try the top swaddle legs out...but then she will probably still end up doing the clock because their legs are strong and usually take them where they want to go.  They start to learn how to push off with their little feet. 

It's hard and sometimes cold turkey is the best way because it speeds things up a bit.  Kind of like pulling off the Band-aid/plaster all at once :-)

[firsttimemummy]

Jiinx - we things about your questions (in no order apart from the order they come into my head!!) ...

.. the sleeping bags are called GroBags (thats the company who started them) and are fantastic once they stop being swaddled
... babies rub their eyes and pull at their ears when they are tired which is probably what she is doing
... my DS used to be a nightmare to get to sleep but now he can roll he likes to sleep on his side (and I wonder if he would have slept better when young if we had done that)
... I know they recommend sleeping on their backs, but when I was small they recommended sleeping on tummies, and it changes from time to time
... think once they learn to roll a bit they do tend to end up in funny positions (DS is almost 9 months and still does!), that is why grobags are so good as they are still covered and blankets dont go over their face, etc
.. at your DDs age they don't really like their tummy as their heads are so heavy, but over time they find it easier.  My friend bought something to lie her DD over to encourage her to lift her head, etc but it was a waste of money .. when they get stronger (and more in proportion) they do it naturally!  As long as she doesn't spend all day on her back it is fine (sure you will have her on your knee, etc lots so her head will be fine!)
.... my DS stopped being swaddled as he used to be so strong he always broke out of them so had to just stop.  He used to flap like mad going to sleep (even if dozing on me, then laid down) but he was 4 months so I used PUPD with him (with advice from forum, of course) and I stopped being a prop to get him to sleep (he would then waken up lots in the night as I was cuddling him to sleep so he expected me there whenever he woke) and he started sleeping well again.

Finally, you will get there!  I used to never get DS to sleep during the day without sooooo much stress but now he just lies straight down and falls asleep (which I thought would NEVER happen)!!!  Just think, when they are teenagers they wont ever get out their beds!!!