Overtired 10 month old... only naps once a day..

[shinymedal]

oh my goodness what a great site this is, thank you all!

have been reading and it seems my 10 month old ds2 is waking in the night as he is OT (took me ages to find that acronym!!) he only naps once a day (in the morning) and maybe a second if we go out in the the pram.

we've just recently managed (thanks to BW)   to get baby to fall asleep in his cot with SP (sh pat) apologies i'm getting to grips with the lingo here.... as he used to be a cradle to sleep and we went into the habit of co-sleeping as he kept waking. he'll now fall alseep in the cot in a few minutes of being put down.

we managed a few nights where he slept in the cot until till 5am (bliss) then woke up and it was SP until 7am, i can see now he is OT, but now it's starting earlier, around 2am.

i'm shattered right now, need to go to bed, but i'm excited that now i seem to have found the symptom what do i do to help him other than to get him to nap more? I've tried to put him down in the afternoon but he won't sleep and sometimes when out in the pram i'll put it flat for him to nap but he'll only scream...

his morning nap is only 30-45 minutes! needless to say i am a fragile, sleep deprived mummy of 2! 

oh he's only now starting to eat more solids.. another story!

thanks so much for any help you can give x

[shinymedal]

thanks so much for your reply, however easy routine?? unfortunately not quite sure what that means as it's not been easy!  

but here is roughly what happens in a typical day, apologies if this is wasn't what you meant, any help would be appreciated at this stage, i have a 3 yr old too and i'm finding it really tough to function with so little sleep;

7-7.30 - breakfast, cereal with fruit and his milk, then toast (this morning half weatabix with little banana)

9.30-10am - 5 oz milk

10am - 11am, he will nap anytime now until 11am for about 30-45 minutes, usually we have to be out in the buggy, if at home it's a struggle and SP in cot..

11.30-12 - lunch (not v much but he's opening his mouth more now!)

2pm - 6oz milk

2pm onwards i try to get him to nap... but rarely happens, today in buggy & car so he slept a little more..

3.30pm - snack

5pm - dinner with

6pm - bath

7-8pm - 7 oz of milk he does half around 7 the then the rest nearer 8

8pm - bed time, falls alseep in cot with SP

then lately its been yo yo waking all night, last night

12.30am - wake up crying, on all fours in cot, SP to sleep, have to lie next to his cot touching his hand, gently pull away

1am - leave his cot, he's asleep

2am - up again, on all fours, do the same, life next to cot, he needs to feel me or dh to go back to sleep, stay with him until 2.50am when he is finally asleep

4am - up again, dh takes over, stays with him until 5.30am, has 5oz of milk

6.15am - up again, comes into our bed, sleeps next to me  my arm under his head until 7.15

today i went out in an effort to get him to nap more he slept 9.40-10am in car then 1.30-2.15 in buggy and again 3-3.30pm in car so much more than normal so i'm interested to see how he sleeps tonight!  

xx

[Roseii]

Just wanted to offer *hugs* I know what it's like to be sooo sleep deprived (still am) Fortunately I only have one to deal with right now, although #2 is on its way.
I will be watching this thread!!
Lots of luck and peaceful nights!!
xxx

[shinymedal]

hello, i'm still here, typing at 9pm with slits for eyes!   i have been pounding the streets in the rain trying to get ds2 to nap in the day, i am SP in the cot, i am holding him... HE JUST WON'T NAP... i have done everything, he just won't go into that transistion into sleep, i am exhausted, running on empty, he is definately OT at night so not sleeping in the night either, dh and i are exhausted..

i've been to the other links (sleep gone wonky etc) but i must be looking at the wrong places as none of it helps. sorry i am new to this site and just don't have the time to deep search, wish i did, i've tried but can't find it, so pllleeeaasse can somebody forgive me for being green to BW and give me a nudge in the right direction as to..  how to get an OT 10 month to nap in the day???

many many many thanks
X

[*Jo*]

Hi there, HUGS!!!! im so sorry you are having a hard time right now, sleep deprivation is awful at its best without other kids to look after

I just need you to answer a few questions quickly if you can (i know you are tired so i will try to be brief)

how long is your boy awake for afte he wakes up for the day before he goes down for his first nap. when Jay3 asked your easy routine, what she meant was your E.A.S.Y routine, E = Eat, A = Activity time, S = Sleep (what time your baby sleeps) and Y = your time (this is while baby sleeps)

Does he have a Pacifier? have you ever let him cry it out? does he have any health related issues eg, reflux??

[shinymedal]

hi cb, thanks for taking the time to read and respond...

Q - how long is your boy awake for afte he wakes up for the day before he goes down for his first nap
A - 2 hours, but its takes a good hour to get him to nap... usually in buggy, if not then in my arms, tried cot but he just stands up and screams, tried crying out, does not work (did for ds1)

Q - when Jay3 asked your easy routine, what she meant was your E.A.S.Y routine, E = Eat, A = Activity time, S = Sleep (what time your baby sleeps) and Y = your time (this is while baby sleeps)
Y - i understand that now! do apologise i haven't read all the books,but tbh i barely have time to open mail as i have no Y time whatsover, sorry tmi, but i'm actually constipated as i don't have time to go.. OMG i'm tearing up now...

Q - Does he have a Pacifier?
A - YES lifesaver, i attach it to him, he knows how to put it back in his mouth

Q have you ever let him cry it out?
A -YES, tried for 3 nights, 3rd night cried for 1hr 50 at 3am - 4.50am before he came into bed with us as last resort, however we have now thankfully sussed the SP technique

Q - does he have any health related issues eg, reflux??
A - not that we know off, ds1 had terrible reflux

hope that can help someone help me get some clarity, i desperately need baby to nap so i can cook, clean, spend time with ds1 ...and of course have him sleep through the night so i don't go crazy...

ok must go to bed, thank you thank you thank you all in advance x

[shinymedal]

sorry one more thing about crying out, do it every day in the buggy, today i walked 40 minutes in the cold and rain and he was still crying completely OT.... finally fell asleep near home, slept 20 minutes stood still buggy in hallway then woke screaming, but gave me enough time to start preparing food for ds1, dh and him...  my poor ds1 

[*Jo*]

Oh you poor thing, i cant imagine how hard it must be if you cant even go to the toilet!!!

alright, now your boy is 10 months old, heres what i think, at this age your baby can stay awake for 3-4 hours before needing a nap, what is happening here is that you are putting him down too early, hes not tired enough to sleep so he is fighting you. i know its not what you want to hear as you really need him to sleep but lets start putting a plan together to help you.

letting your LO cry it out does have quite disasterous affects on their sleep as they have lost trust with you returning to them, im hoping someone else can jump on board here to help you with this though as i have no experience in that area, you will need to teach him to trust you again

Ok, so when he first wakes up lets try and see how long he goes before he shows you that hes tired, watch him, wait for any signs and note the time, as hes been going to bed extremely early we dont really have a starting point to go from so we need him to show us where he starts to show tired signs and go from there.

Im hoping you get a good nights sleep tongiht, its mornign for me here now so i hope you can jump back on before its bedtime for me!!!

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi

I'm just heading off to bed (gone midnight here) but will check back on this thread tomorrow to see if I can help.

It's hard to sleep train when a babe is so OT but I can see that we need to do something quick for all of you.

I'll be back online tomorrow, okay? Something like PUPD or Gradual Withdrawl would be good here I think. I've no PUPD experience so not sure of how easy that is following CIO. I know GW is good for that. Maybe some APOP (accidental parenting on purpose) to get some sleep fast first.

Hugs. It can be sorted  You will all get some sleep

Charlotte

[shinymedal]

hi, OM goodness girls, thanks so much for offering to help i am up for trying ANYTHING to get him to nap in the day..thank you thank you thank you, i am desperate! what is PUPD and GW, how do you do it in the day time please??

CB -  during the day i only try to get him to nap when he is clearly showing signs of being tired. pulling his back, screaming, rubbing eyes... its then that it can take an hour to get him to sleep (when he's crying in buggy i often stop and SP him but it doesn't work) and then he only stays asleep for 20 minutes max, defo not enough time to get into that deep sleep mode. however if i sit down and cradle him tight in my arms, he'll nod off in minutes, but i can't put him down as when i do he wakes almost immediately!!!! so that is not an option..

APOC - funny you should say it we did APOP last night for our sanity! he went to bed 8.30, woke at 10.30 dh SP him back, he woke again at 2am, sent dh to him (i couldn't move) and then at 3am again i tried SP didn't work, didn't have energy so took him into our bed (he likes that) and got him to sleep holding him, gave him 5oz of milk, he finished the lot and is still sleeping now.. 7.16am, so not a bad night considering!!  oh my goodness, no he he's not he's awake now, dh has just brought him down... so have to go... but feel a bit better today, 3am - 7am in our bed was a good call...

thank you x

[*Jo*]

Ok, sounds like you did some good stuff to get some rest!

now when he starts showing you those tired signs, it could be that hes bored and needs a change of scenery, we are gonna have to do this gradually because hes probably OT at the moment. take a note of how long hes been awake for when he shows those tired signs, then push it 15 minutes, go round the room and look at some photos on the wall or take him to the garden and show him the flowers, do it gently and quietly, then take him to his room, do the wind down routine that you do (change nappy, read a book, sleep sack on etc) then tell him its time for sleep and put him in bed. Make a note of the time you put him into bed and tell us what happens.

Oh and PUPD is  Pick Up/Put Down http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69177.0

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69174.0

[anna*]

Hi hun - sorry you're having a tough time. Let's see if I can help on PUPD. Is your baby pulling up to stand in his crib yet? At 10 months you will do most of the settling in his crib. Totally agree with the girls that 2 hours awake for the first part of the day is too short, so he's resisting sleep. Keep him up for 3 hours and you might find he goes down easier.

OK you know this already, but the more you take him into bed with him, the more he'll wake for it. It doesn't sound like shush-pat is doing much for him, so I'd move on to PUPD. I'll wait to hear how you're getting on and about whether he's pulling up to stand, and then I can give you some more detail.

PS: EASy stands for Eat Activity Sleep - but an EASY routine is often hard work! So an EASY routine is written out like this:

time: Eat (what and how much)
time: Activity
time: Sleep (how long)

Younger babies tend to have an EAS EAS throughout the day, older ones it gets a bit different once they're dropping milk and having more solids. A typical 10 month old might be something like this

7am: Milk, solids at 8am
10am: Nap, 1.5hrs
11.30am: awake, 12 o'clock lunch
3pm: Nap, 1hr
4pm Milk, solids at 5pm
6pm bath
6.45pm last milk
7pm asleep for the night

[shinymedal]

hi anna, thanks for your reply and info on EASY, all makes sense, i had a great routine for ds1, have no idea what happened with this one...

yes he has been pulling up for a while now, will give PUPD a go appreciate any help you can give, i see you're in london you wouldn't be in islington would you??   

will try keeping him up for 3 hours in the morning, your typical schedule is very helpful..

today he had his breakfast at 7.45 then milk 9.30am then he napped 10-11am this morning in buggy (after nursery run) - bit of crying but not as bad as yesterday, he's been up since, it's 1.10pm, refused his lunch at 12 and playing right now... at this stage wwyd? shall i give him no food and keep him up until 3pm for nap, miss his usual 2pm milk, but then will the 4pm milk fill him up so he won't eat his dinner at 5pm? 

thanksx

x

[anna*]

LOL not too far away, just in W12.

Will he eat a banana or something? Hey that's not a bad nap this morning. Looking at your morning, I'd give him his milk at 2, nap at 2.30 (just don't let him fall asleep on the boob/bottle). If he only naps an hour again, bed at 6-6.30.

OK so PUPD when they're pulling up becomes just PD.
Lay him in his cot, say goodnight. Leave the room. If/when he starts to cry, wait and check it is a serious cry (not a whine or a mantra cry), then go back in. If he's standing up and crying, lay him back down saying 'lie down honey, it's time to sleep' (or your version). Try to settle him in his cot, ie by patting his bum, stroking his hair, rubbing his back or whatever. If he's fighting you, just sit by the cot. Keep your voice low and calm, but don't say too much different stuff, keep it to just one or two phrases.

Don't try and stop him from standing up in his cot, you'll end up in an absurd wrestling match (ask me how I know). Wait until he is standing and crying, then lay him down again. If he's standing and playing, just stand back from the cot, don't look at him or engage with him at all. If he's crying and not standing, try to soothe him with your voice and stroke his hair/back/wiggle his butt etc whatever you can find that works.

[A pair of Charlies]

Anna - fantastic!!!!