increasing milk supply?

[lazfam]

So, lactation consultant came over yesterday. She said she thinks I missed a growth spurt with regards to my milk supply upping as well. She said this b/c DS gets fussy when my let down slows and I have a hard time keeping him latched to empty the breast and encourage another let down. I started thinking he had emptied the breast and was just done. But, lactation consultant weighed him when I'd normally just stop and he was only getting around 2oz. She had me keep switching boobs back and forth to get 2 more let downs and he got 3.5 and he was happy with that. He's 7 weeks and 11.11 lbs, btw. So, she told me to keep doing that and to take More Milk Plus tincture. So, I'm trying to do that but its REALLY hard. This morning, for example. He woke at 5:20 and I nursed him laying down in bed. We both fell asleep and we woke about 7am. I nursed him but after 10 minutes he would not relatch. Just wanted nothing to do with me. So, I pumped out the rest (for dream feed) and went about my morning. He took a short nap 9-9:45 and I tried to nurse him at 10. This time he ate for about 4 minutes and wouldn't relatch. About 30-45 minutes later he was getting irritable so I nursed him again and he went longer, but not very long...15 or 20 minutes in total (both breasts, in total). He was about read for another nap, so I swaddled him and offered him more, and he took a bit more and went to sleep. I pumped out the rest  (for dream feed). But, it seems like he's just not interested after the let down slows. I really don't want to get all stressed out about this, but I really am. She said 36-48 hours of just trying to keep him going during a feeding...just keep switching sides for him to suckle on the empty breast that tells my body to make more, and I'll be where I need to be. But, like today, I kept trying to return him to the breasts and he would just keep his mouth open and cry. He would NOT latch. What else can I do?? I don't want to give up on breastfeeding, but I'm already absolutely exhausted from lack of sleep and this is really stressing me out.

[tanya032009]

Hi- I wish I had some advice to offer...I have never heard of "missing a growth spurt"...did you LC give any more information on this?

This is probably an obvious suggestion, but have you tried nursing in a quiet, dim room without distraction? My DS is also a short nurser and I've been worried as well about weight gain and my supply. My Dr though, doesn't seem concerned at all...

Could you try more pumping?

[suzannebowie]

Hi - im relatively new here myself so im not sure how much help i'll be but ive also had issues with bf.  My lo is now 6 weeks and we seem to have turned a corner with regards to supply issues.  I also do switch feeding and it works for the most part - have you tried breast compression?  I would also recommend pumping more - basically whenever you can but i followed Tracys advice of pumping after every feed for 3 days to up my supply and i really think its worked.  i was always worried she wasnt getting enough / nursing long enough and often apperaed unsatisfied after a feed but now she feeds (very quickly) and lets me know when shes finished - usually pulls away with a drunk look on her face!!  we also went through a growth spurt at threeish weeks and i sympathise - it was exhausting which is why i introduced more pumping to pre-empt the 6 week spurt!  its hard though cos obviously you want to let them nurse to increase your supply but when theyre not interested...

Sometimes when theyre not interested there is just nothing you can do - just pump instead until he shows more interest? There are some really good pumping threads on here but i dont know how to do the link thing - sorry!  One thing i just remembered was that my midwife said to leave a longer gap between feeds so that hes hungrier and gets more efficient at emptying the breast so my lo was going 4 hours at 3 weeks and we've worked backwards so we're now at 3 hours so her daytime naps dont suffer.

Hope some of this helps a little.

Suzy x

[b0nni3]

Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time, BF-ing can be so tough because there is so much less control over it compared to bottle feeding! Way to go for being committed to it.

Have you tried Fenugreek ? I take them 3 times daily after each meal, 2 capsules each, and I find that to be very helpful in keeping up my supply now that my DS is only feeding 2x/day (at 11 months) (it makes your pee smell like maple syrup). It sounds like pumping out what he doesn't it should do the trick of upping supply, but it sounds like your let down is just a tad too slow for your LO's taste. Maybe have a read through this article to see if it helps?

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/letdown.html

Good luck!

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi

Huge hugs. I hit rough patches and with help from ladies on here, kept going and they were soon behind me. Still BFg at 18months. 

Just quickly posting info as need to get DS up from nap. I'll bob back later and see if there's anything I can think of (reason why supply low and ways to get him more interested. I wonder if it's a sleep related thing - not napping well so really tired and uninterested during feeds.

Things that you can do to increase your supply:

*First and foremost - your lo!  Nothing will stimulate your supply like your baby so key here is to nurse, nurse, and nurse some more

* skin to skin contact - as much as you can - strip yourself off - strip lo off and climb into bed.  Play, cuddle, nurse etc.  Spend the whole day in bed if you can.  Failing that, make sure the house is nice and warm and strip your lo off and yourself and just play like that all day.  Bathing together etc...  This will increase teh level of oxytocin (one of the primary milk producing hormones) and therefore help a LOT

* switch nursing: when lo has finished with the first side, offer the second.  When done with the second, offer the first.  When finished with the first for a second time, offer the second again.  This will normally stimulate a further let down with each switch and tells your body to make more milk.

* pumping directly after the feed preferably for at least 15 mins per side although anything is better than nothing.  You can also "switch pump" which is basically going back and forth between the breasts when the milk stops coming...

Things you can consume to help:

* fenugreek, Blessed Thistle, Mothers Milk Tea & Brewers Yeast are all things you can buy at your local health food store that can be really great for helping to boost supply.  With the fenugreek, it's arguably the most effective but unless you are smelling like savoury maple syrup (and I mean everything - your urine, your sweat, you!), you're not taking enough haha!

* oatmeal/porridge.  This can be great for some - I personally notice a difference with this   When I've been low in the past, I've had it for breakfast and for lunch - you can also eat tons of flapjack or oatmeal cookies ~~~ porridge is great for me: porridge, milk, cinnamon, pinch of ground cloves, drop of vanilla essense and fresh berries - really helps my supply everyday. Also, oatmilk available from healthfood stores and some UK supermarkets - even do chocolate flavour

* make sure you're getting plenty of water - this really can be a major factor for many! In those early months (up to 6 months or so), I'd drink a large glass of water or milk during / or with each BF. All other drinks during the day I saw as drinks / hydration for me.

* make sure you're eating properly - well balanced diet, with enough calories, enough dairy fats and health fats (such as are found in seeds and nuts etc). Up until 9 months or so, I ate an awful lot. I viewed main meals as nutrition for me, and then additional meals and snacks as feeding the boy...so I'd have breakfast and then toast an hour or so later... lots of healthy, carby nutritious snacks all day. It helped me make sure I was taking on enough to feed us both

Links to FAQs that might help:
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=66001.0
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=88759.0
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65905.0
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=94121.0

HTH

Charlotte

[lazfam]

Thank you so much. I'm doing all these things. The problem has gotten worse in that I can't keep him on when the milk starts to slow down. He wants it pumping into his mouth. He gets 1 bottle/day and that is the dream feed my husband does so I can sleep. I've been an emotional wreck and getting a bit more sleep is the only way we could take the edge off. I pump for it for him to give to DS. Anyhow, DS will only nurse about 10-20 minutes now. He's 2 months old. I know he's not done. He's a good natured little bean, so he'll get over it and want to nurse again within 2 hours. Which means no good nap. He generally naps only 45 minutes now before he wants to nurse again, but...again, he wont stay on very long. I do breast compressions, I switch nurse. I eat oatmeal. I take fenugreek tincture. I drink mother's milk tea. I drink water. I'm eating enough. I'm doing everything I can to make sure the supply is there for him. I did spend 2 hours in bed with him skin to skin one day. It's hard for me as I have a toddler too. So, I can't just stay like that endlessly. Just as an experiment, I nursed him as long as he'd stay...he ended up screaming and crying and wouldn't put his mouth on my breast. Then I topped him off with a bottle. He sucked it down and he's been napping over an hour now for the first time since 6 weeks. That is how long this has been going on. It started at his  week growth spurt time. I REALLY want to keep breastfeeding. But, I'm starting to loose confidence and resolve. Every feeding is a battle and I'm SO tired from they physical and emotional demands of this...and trying to keep up with my family. Anyone have any suggestions?? I'm so so soo sad right now.

[tanya032009]

Hey there- just wanted to give you big <<hugs>. I can;t imagine all you are going through. You are obviously a very dedicated mom.

How is his weight gain? is it possible he is still getting enough but will always take more milk if it comes easy, ie bottle? My DS will only go about 10-15 minutes most times as well. I know for me, in the early days I nursed him often (like at 8 weeks) but I think sometimes he was tired and I just couldn't tell the difference between his cries. Though, I'm a FTM so you probably have much more experience in that regard.

It sounds like you are doing so much right. I wish I had more to offer...I so can understand though when you really want to continue breastfeeding and the odds seem stacked against you. It's a high internal conflict huh?

Hang in there...whatever you do i'm sure will be the best decision for you and your LO!

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi there

Sorry - I've have been offline for a week.

Let us know how weight gain looks and whether plenty of wet and dirty nappies? That should tell us whether he's taking all he needs during the feed, as he could be an efficient feeder. There are some babes that feed really really really fast when really young and get all they need. 

But what concerns me (and you!) is that he isn't going long between feeds. So - wondering what else that could be and whether it's the cues. Hunger and sleep (OT / OS especially) are pretty close to eachother. When he wakes from a nap at 45 mins, are you sure that he's hungry? 45 min nappers are quite common with 0-3m (in my DS's case 0-6) and can be simply that their routine needs a tweak (too much or too little A time) or that they aren't transitioning through the sleep cycles well without help. And those things can be fixed. My DS woke at 45mins and took a fair bit of resettling to get back to sleep. Most of the time I knew it wasn't hunger that was making him cry. So, if there's a chance that it could be a nap issue, we can tackle that. 

Another thought is Reflux and I definatly recommend popping over to the Reflux board and checking there with their symptoms. It's a broad area (Reflux) and it seems like symptoms really can be a pick'n'mix, but from what I've seen on the boards, frequent feeds can be a sign. Apologies if this has been suggested before. 

Let us know on naps / sleep, weight gain etc.  With that info, I'll also see if we can get some more eyes on this.

  I can't imagine how hard this is on you. 

[lazfam]

Hey there "A pair of Charlies" Sorry I've been MIA. If you have nap suggestions, I'd take them!! I just posted on EASY forum about it. I went for a weight check and DS has gained 1.4lbs in 2 weeks. So, I'm guessing he's not lacking for food. He doesn't nurse long, though. 15-25 minutes and he nurses off both sides. We've been trying to do the following routine:
wake and eat- 7am
A
S 8:30-10

E 10
A
S 11:30-1

E 1
A
S 2:30-4

E 4
A
S 5:30-6pm (cat nap)

E 6
A bath, massage, jammies
E 7:30 top off

DF 10:30/11 and then see what happens...
what usually happens is he wakes around 2 and I sshh pat him. It'll either work right away, or if it doesn't, it turns to a full blown cry for an hour and I'll feed him at 3ish. and then he'll go back to sleep until 6/6:30
If it does work, he'll go back to sleep until 4ish, I'll nurse him and then he'll wake again 6/6:30.

In hopes that we'd get him to do a midnight to 6am stretch (that is what we did with DD), someone suggested we don't feed him at 10:30/11 b/c it might be disrupting his sleep and if we do it earlier maybe he'd sleep from like 9-3am, nurse him and then he'd sleep again until 6/6:30am. So, we tried it last night and it was a disaster! He was up every 2 hours all night long. BTW, he's 11 weeks this past monday and almost 14lbs.  I'm going back to work on 12/1 and feeling pretty panicked about how I will manage. I commute 1.5 hours each way. I'm going to have to wake up around 5:30am as is to get ready and nurse him. I can't be up all night long.

[A pair of Charlies]

I'll pop over to the EASY board and take a look at your thread there. 

Try not to worry.