13 mo. long NWs MISERABLE

[~*Nicole*~]

So recently DD has been having looong NWs or 5:30 EWs. or BOTH. Currently she is taking one nap most days, however, if she wakes early and I can squeeze in 2 naps I do try. She also recently started up with a runny nose/cough but the NWs and EWs have been going on since before this (although I am sure it is an additional contributing factor now). When she wakes at night it ranges from willing to lay back down and try to fall asleep (I will hear her do her mantra noise) and then cry out when that does not work after 10-15 mins. and we repeat a quick cuddle, lay back down to try again, etc. OR hysterical, standing, continues to cry while being held by DH or myself and very hard to settle down at all despite being comforted (pain? nightmare?). Often, once she does settle she grabs and clings to us and is hysterical as we near her crib....OR she is chatty and asks to get down and walk around which we don't let her do but she keeps fighting us and trying. The thing is recently it seems as though she tries but CAN'T fall back to sleep and that's when the hysterics seem to start. It seems like OT but she has been napping well and going to bed well in general. I'll post a normal day and yesterday (some days just don't work out the way you plan)

Normal:
6:30-wake
12-2-nap (or 2:30/45 as we got this past Fri. and Sat.)
7-bed (slept all night but woke at 5:30...same as previous night)

Yesterday
5:30-wake (went to sitters)
1-3-nap
8-bed (up at 10:30 or 11 -can't remember, until 1:30, up again at 4:20 and again for the day at 6:20)


DH and I both work full time and can't seem to figure out what we can do for the NWs. We are both tired and pu/pd takes so much consistent effort that I am not sure we can try, plus half the time she doesn't stop crying when  held so there isn't a good opportunity to lay her back down.

Do you think I should try putting her back on two naps consistently for awhile? or ride out the one nap and do an earlier bedtime even if I am sure this will probably continue a 5:30 wake up? Just looking for a general consensus.

[Mashi]

I say at the very least, attempt to do alternating days of one nap and two naps.  I know some LOs do well on one nap at an early age, but she is still very young to be on one nap consistently.  She's doing 5.5-6 hours some days before her nap, and even though it is a 2 - 2.5 hour nap, that same long A time before bed can build up some OT pretty quickly.  If you look at a day like yesterday she had 7.5 hours of A time before her nap, and then 5 hours after ... makes for a very long day for her at that age.

Without knowing what your routine was like when she was on two naps, I would try for a short nap of 30ish minutes at about 10am or so, and then a 1.5-2 hour nap at about 130 and then bed by 7-730pm and see how she does with that.

HTH

[LucySol]

Hi Nicole!!!

agreeing with Mashi,i think she is OT too.i would try and go back to 2 naps for a while if you can or alternate them if she will do that.On her 1 nap days i would bring her bedtime earlier say 6.30,or 7pm if she wakes at 3pm.

why did you go to the 1 nap? was she resisting somewhere? i would look at tweaking that before you jump to the 1 nap cosistently.

Lucy xxx

[~*Nicole*~]

Lucy-Yes she was consistently refusing pm nap until very very late and am nap was getting later and later..and refusal was happening even on 30 min nap. with two naps our bedtime tended to get late which was alright but switching to one was working really well for most days. I do two naps when she seems OT. and I do the short am and longer pm. It will end up something like 10:30-11 and 2-4 ish. IF she'll go down at 2 without a fight.

Mashi-I'll try for that today.

Thanks. I think I just needed to hear someone else TELL me what to do.

[KathrynK]

Hi Nicole

we have been having exactly the same kind of NWs with Alex these last 2 weeks. I've struggled to identify the cause as he's never been a consistent sleeper, and is back on medication for reflux, and is teething. 

Anyway, I thought he was UT so pushed him on to one nap for a couple days, he has always needed less sleep than average, even though it is early to go to one nap). It helped for 3 days, but since then nights have been awful again. He is at nursery 3 days a week; yesterday I asked them to try for 2 naps as he was tired from the horrible night. He wouldn't go down in the morning until 11.15, so his pm nap was later than normal and they woke him at 4pm for tea. Usually he is awake by 3pm so I was concerned he wouldn't go down at 7 for bedtime.
Anyway, guess what? He went to sleep at 7 and slept ALL NIGHT with no wakings. Well, that's happened about 30 times in total in the past year so I was astonished! It led me to wonder if he was indeed OT and so having a short A time before bed helped him to catch up properly.
Am keeping fingers crossed for another decent night tonight.....
hth
Kathryn x

[~*Nicole*~]

Kathryn-Thank you! I felt horrible when she didn't nap until 1 yesterday!!! The sitter was supposed to do a 12 pm nap...and had she been with my mom or me I'd have done 2 (my mom was away who usually watches her) But I guess I should have done an earlier bedtime to compensate for all the bad sleeping. Today my mom has her and is trying for two naps.

[*Liz*]

Nicole - my 2p worth is that the last A is too long on the 1 nap days. J is doing 4.5hrs to bed after a 2.5hr nap. He would struggle to do 5 full hrs on a 2hr nap.

But I understand fully that sometimes there isn't much you can do about it, especially when working.

In the final stages of the 2-1 I essentially set bedtime for 6.45pm, basically as I just couldn't get hom and get him to bed any earlier. I think it might have helped as his body clock was set.

So frustrating though  .

[~*Nicole*~]

Thanks!

Liz-Yeah It is hard as I pick her up around 4 and get home and rush to do dinner by 5:30/6ish and it all ends up later than I plan. Sigh. Will try earlier bedtime tonight. I am hoping she'll nap 2-3:30 or 4 this afternoon and I can go for 7:30/8 so 4 hrs. A. Hope that will help. Crossing my fingers she naps well. Thing is she didn't struggle with the 5 hr. A to bed until she was waking early and her nights were getting shorter (an OT sign I know) but she was settling so well/easily and sleeping through the night but I guess it caught up with her and I wasn't realizing it. Ooops.

[*Liz*]

J collapsed out of exhaustion after super longs A's as well. I was very surprised as in the past he would have screamed if OT.

Anyway you can give Ava her tea a bit earlier on one nap days? Like give her something from the night before instead? That would only work if you don't all eat together I guess. My mum gives J his tea at 4.30 - 5pm, so right when you are travelling I guess.

[~*Nicole*~]

I can do her dinner earlier. I am going to do that tonight and see how it goes. It's more that DH and I aren't good think ahead types and we're procrastinating last minute people.

[KathrynK]

Morning

Just wondering how last night was for you? Alex has been waking before midnight the last 2 weeks but last night his NW was at 2.30 am- I suppose you could call that "progress"? 

Anyway took about an hour for him to properly go back to sleep, it's been a lot worse than that so am not complaining too much. I am starting to think TV before bed gets him OS and that causes a waking before midnight.

I had the wierdest dream about you last night- I picked the kids up from nursery and you were late to pick up Ava (although in my dream she was called Nicole and you were Ava) and I took her to buy a balloon to cheer her up and then looked after her in my car until you arrived. I think I am losing the plot....! 

[~*Nicole*~]

Strange dream! Well thanks for being kind to Ava in your subconscious dreamland hehehe. She loves balloons!

Last night went well. I rushed to get her to bed early and ended up putting her up WAY TOO early hehehe. She was in bed just shy of 7 and actually tried to fall asleep but couldn't. Def. UT (she woke from her nap at 4:15!!!--I wasn't thinking) Well we didn't want to bring her back downstairs so we did quiet play in her room for awhile and tried bedtime again (7:45 maybe) and she still had trouble so DH took a turn staying in her room with her and laid her down closer to 8 and she fell asleep somewhere around there. I can't believe I laid her down less than 3 hours after she woke from a 2 hr. nap. What was I thinking?! BUT she slept ALL NIGHT. I heard her twice but didn't have to go in and she was right back to sleep. She was up at 6:00 ish (6:10 maybe) which is still about 10 hrs. only BUT on good naps and no NWs I'll take it. I'm going to see if she'll do the same 2 naps today and hope for the night to go well again.

2:30 is better than midnight for him but not for you I guess. Good luck today!I was actually thinking about the tv too close to bed. DD doesn't watch but if DH and I do watch I wonder if it is too OS with the lights and sounds, etc. I am thinking of not having it on the hour or so before her bedtime.

[LucySol]

glad last night went well.hope you get the 2 naps in today xx

[~*Nicole*~]

My mom took Ava to the park and she had two naps...but the second was shorter than I had hoped. She went to bed easily but we'll see what the night brings.

[~*Nicole*~]

I have a question. If I keep getting 10 or 10.5 hr. nights after consistently doing the two naps again do I assume she needs less daytime sleep and if so....how do I cut it...just do one nap? From what you're saying...on one nap which should be around 12-2 or later....she'd need an early bedtime but then I'd certainly have an EW (which wouldn't be a technical early wake...just early for DH and I and having to go to work, etc.) But with two naps she'll wake early b/c of getting a lot of daytime sleep. Is it normal to do something like:

nap 1-10:30-11
nap 2-2:30-4 ?
bed-8

Also in the past she would sleep later in the morning as we pushed her morning nap later....to the point it was at 11 to get her to sleep to 7. If that same principle holds true...wouldn't I need her to take her am nap later than 10:30 esp. when she isn't sick/teething etc. and can handle the long A times again (which she can do 5 hrs. normally) b/c otherwise it will reinforce her early wake time???

I guess basically my question is...after we get past these NWs from OT....how do I get her to sleep until 7 am again???