Can't belive I am here again, need advice from MSPI experts

[skatty]

A brief background, Leorah was a severe MSPI baby and was BF for nearly a year and then went onto rice milk. At about 15 months we started adding small amounts of cheese and yoghurt but milk still made her bad. At 18 months she started tolerating milk and we were happy! Anyway although gastro wise all was good she had some speech regression during year 1-2 and even though there were no apparant symtoms it turned out she was having recurrent ear infections and glue ear which I then read can be a transitional symptom of MSPI  So back onto rice milk and all was good, she kept up the cheese and yoghurt, it seemed it was the masses of milk that were the problem. However, I cannot remember when it started but she would get constipated, it seemed to be psychological, from 12 months she would hide to poo and if we had visitors she would hold it until they left, if we were away for a whole weekend she just wouldn't go  Anyway this problem has got worst and worst and she is now TT for wee but will hold her poos in for up to 5/6 days even though she is on a laxative powder, now I know some of this is definitely psychological but tonight about an hour after being in bed she kept crying and telling me her tummy hurts and she just couldn't go and it just occurred to me that this just doesn't seem right. Nowadays most of her poos happen in her night nappy while she is asleep, she seems petrified of pooing and will now hold her pees when she needs a poo  I know she has had some very hard painful stools, we had blood in her nappy after one very hard one and her poor little butt had fissures so that is probably causing a vicious circle

Sorry this is so long but does anyone know if MSPI can cause digestive probs in older toddlers, she doesn't even really get much dairy but does like cheese and maybe has a cheese stick and some cream cheese most days but as I said no milk, she drinks Rice Dream. It is a right PITA but I am cutting dairy immediately, I'm just wondering if their is anyone else on here that has a toddler with similar symptoms or if it is even very likely. It does seem that she is very sensitive to the proteins, since going back to rice milk she has also had tubes in her ears and has had liquid in the ear after a cold when one fell out but no infection. That has just reminded me the severe consipation first started after she had 3 back to back courses of antibiotics  She then had to have another course of penicillin in April as she had a very severe throat infection /flu and if I remember right thigs have never been the same since.

Sorry again, I know it is a lot of info, I am kind of thinking out loud, I am just sick of all this stuff, I mean she is now 3 and I am still worrying about her tummy  Please help if you can, I am open to any suggestions 

[skatty]

I found the answer to my question on the net:

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-56477595/chronic-constipation-children-traced.html

MPI can cause constipation in young children, mow I have to cut it out and see if she improves, the only doubt I have is that she doesn't really have much dairy and no milk at all but I guess she was particularly sensitive, I ate some crisps that said they may contain milk spores and she was sick for days as a baby 

[Mashi]

Ohh Katt, I was gutted to see your name beside this post!  Feel so crap for you, what an ordeal!

Even though milk and dairy can be constipating, cheese ESPECIALLY is constipating even in people without milk allergies or intolerances. Any chance she is just having too much cheese? 

Crap, DS is waking - I gotta run, will be back!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Spencer got horribly constipated when we tried to swtich to milk, so I put her back on formula (soy). She has a bit of cheese or yogurt here and there, but it doesn't seem to bother her. Also, when I was BF she was quite constipation prone (I didn't drink milk, but still had some dairy)

Heidi

[skatty]

No I don't think she is having to much cheese, she may have a cheese stick or cream cheese for lunch but that is about it, she loves cottage cheese but we haven't had any for a while so now I am starting to doubt it is the dairy  The thing is I can't work out is how she can possibly be constipated, here is an example of what fibrous foods she has had today: some oats with rice milk for breakfast, rye bread for lunch (with ham and cream cheese  ) cucumber and pepper slices, grapes, snacks were assorted fruit 2x a day at nursery, at home she ate raw carrots and more peppers, dinner was wholewheat pasta with chilli bolognese which is bulked out with loads of veg and after she has raisins and dried apricots and half a pear! That is pretty average though some days she will eat even more fruit, she eats nearly all her veggies raw and we only eat wholegrains, on top of this she also has a laxative powder prescribed by the doc! It kills me to see her holding her poo back and then  when she is finally ready to do it she just can't pass it, it is honestly like watching your toddler in labour, she starts sweating, gets goosepimples all, writhes around over and cries and complains her tummy hurts 

Heidi one thing I do know is I will never switch her back to cows milk again, I am not entirely convinced it is the dairy now I think about what small amounts she gets but I guess elimination is the only way to find out  It is going to be so much harder now she knows what chocolate and ice cream are, it is not like she gets these much but she does get an ice cream on a day out or after having her hair washed, how do you tell a 3yo that it makes them sick?

I am so sick of all this 

[Mashi]

Katt have you ever considered the possibility that it is not the dairy but something else? Wheat comes to mind, so does gluten.  She is eating SO much fruit and having so much fibre, that you are right it can't just be constipation from not eating properly or getting enough roughage...some kind of a food intolerance or bowel issue seems to be more at play, but I know that people with one type of food problem are more likely to have other food problems as well, so could be something other than dairy.

Just a thought....

[binxyboo]

Riley, who is now 4, was intolerant to dairy. Was fine with trace dairy, but anything more would cause fussiness, constipation, After he turned a year, he was fine with yoghurt and some cheese. When he weaned from nursing, he started drinking rice milk as well. Constipation continued on and off, until he was about 2.5 and I could never quite pinpoint what the culprit was. Everyone thought it must be the cheese or yoghurt, but I just didn't think that was it.  Until one day, when he was about 2 3/4 years old, and he suddenly quit drinking rice milk. He started to have more regular bowel movements after that. So, something else for you to think about.....

[Peek-a-boo]

Adding to the mix here, my MPI guy had similar bowel issues when PTing.  He was not drinking rice milk, but was drinking calcium fortified orange juice.  I can't remember the impetus, but for some reason I switched him to apple juice and that switch significantly softened his bowel movements and we got past the issues we were having.  Rice milk is also fortified with calcium--I wonder if whatever they use to fortify it could be constipating? 

When he was getting trace dairy (prior to the whole PT issue) and turned his bowel movements a very odd pale yellow color and made them very loose and mushy. 

[LisbonMom]

I was thinking along those same lines as well, that it may not be the dairy. One thing I would do is take her to a homeopath and get her gut straightened out, maybe add some probiotics to her diet (especially important since she did all those antibiotics).

Also, just to give you some feeling that you are not alone, dd2 has had major bowel troubles since forever. While breastfed she would go without a poo for 3 to 4 days, which can be quite normal, and when she went it would be soft. Things started to get complicated when we started on solids, as she kept her 3/4 day average, but poos got a lot harder. I tried just about everything, things would work for about a week or so and then go back to their normal pattern. Getting her to toilet train was an adventure as it was getting really tough for her (blood as well a few times). We used a glicerin-based baby laxative a lot. Most times she simply would not go without it because her stools were so hard. With time things have gotten better. She hasn't needed the laxative for a good few months now, and she doesn't take as many trips to the loo to finally go, although when she does go, she'll do more than I do. Just to give you some perspective as she's slightly older than Leorah.

[LizzieN]

Hey sweetie,
I would def try some probiotics as a regular thing..just be careful if you are cutting out dairy, as you know they often contain dairy....The digestive flora can be so mucked up by antibiotics that even on a normal diet things just don't move through in the right way....

So sorry for your poor DD by the way, that must be horrible for her I would be treating her to special things, outings etc after she has done poos too to try and get a pleasant association for a less than pleasant task
xxLizzie

[skatty]

Oh wow thank you all so much! You have given me so much to think about! We are definitely going to get her on probiotics, we had some dairy free ones before, I will try and get them again.

I never even dreamed it could be rice milk! Her poo actually became softer when we switched from cows to rice milk though so I am not sure it is that 

Mashi, my DH wondered about gluten, oh I hope not  She mainly eats rye bread but does often have wholewheat toast for breakfast and loves wholewheat pasta, I will have to keep it mind!

I am wondering whether I should try her on oat or almond milk and give a calcium supplement and see what happens? She loves her milk, it is a comfort thing for her like a dummy or a lovey so i can't see her giving that up! It si interesting that a few of you have LO's with constipation with rice milk, I just told DH and he was also surprised, that was the last thing we thought of! We have a little healthfood shop in our little village so we will be down there as soon as it opens, thay order our rice milk so we see what else we could get.

Thank you all so much for your help 

[Vicku]

Oh, so after reading this I suppose you can ignore my pm, or add it to the replies, as it seems some people have indeed experienced constipation with rice milk. Hope the probiotics can help too, as I said they've really helped my constipation in this pregnancy. If you can get oats milk from the health food shop I would try that as an alternative, it tastes nice I think (especially in pancakes, yum!).

[Mashi]

Mashi, my DH wondered about gluten, oh I hope not  Roll Eyes She mainly eats rye bread but does often have wholewheat toast for breakfast and loves wholewheat pasta, I will have to keep it mind!

Yes, I really DO hope it is not gluten - a gluten free diet is tough enough for an adult but it would be so much harder for a child to understand.  Gluten is found in wheat, rye, barley and oats - although recent research has suggested that oats contain very little gluten on their own and most of it is cross-contaminiation from other grains; pure oats on their own are often suitable for some people with celiac disease (gluten intolerance) in small amounts.

Don't have much time as we are heading into town today but will pop back on this thread later this evening!

[MLK]

Sorry Kat you are going through this!

My DS2 (16 months) is MSPI and if he has rice milk, he won't poo for 3 days!  So it definitely is a factor for us. I make him an MSPI eggnog (recipe in the recipe sticky) with coconut milk and homemade rice milk. Since then he was been pooing very day, but if  I make any baked goods with the bought rice milk he is constipated again.

I never tried the oat milk, I read somewhere that oats are high in phytic acid which is a chemical that binds to calcium and iron and makes it hard to absorb. Not really what I wanted! I am allergic to almonds too so I didn't bother to try that, either.

Lan

[skatty]

Thanks everyone, the health food shop opened to late for us today as we were out visiting but we will go on Monday. Leorah has complianed of tummy ache all day, will hardly eat and when she wees she says she is scared  She did end up having a small poo last night but her stomach is full so I am hoping after being stuffed with prunes today and plenty of fluid and powder she will go again tonight!

I can't believe that I didn't think of the connection between the rice milk, what makes it worst is when she is refusing to eat I give her more milk, doh 

Well we have decided to take her to a naturopath as soon as we have some money! I really hope it is not gluten, I didn't realsie it was in rye as well 

I really appreciate all your help, this problem has been making so stressed