Author Topic: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1  (Read 27170 times)

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Offline *Becky*

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2009, 13:55:22 pm »
It's very confusing really as if I am in the room he will be quiet in the bed but keep looking up to see if I am there. Then it just feels like a game?
If I leave the room he stands up and screams. Difficult to know how to handle it as want to help him but don't want to create a situation where he needs me every time he goes to sleep.




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Offline Mashi

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2009, 13:56:42 pm »
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.. Um.  Not sure TBH.  One part of me wants to say bed at 530 if he has been up since 530 and only takes 2x30 minute naps.  But I can also understand that bed at 530 can seem silly. And isn't always the answer.  And so I think that if it were ME, I would do bed at 6pm, hope for a better night/morning, and then try tomorrow with an earlier nap? Interested to see what others suggest though!

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2009, 14:00:15 pm »
Mashi's written everything I would suggest!!! Hurrah! And for more rambling-less too!

I'd stay in the room with him, keep it dark and have some quiet time. Keep LO in the cot if you can, if you can't just keep it calm and quiet. If you can.

Like Mashi, I've waited it out in the room before. Sometimes DS would drop off again after 30 mins or so. Which is something. Even if they don't, the dark and quiet time is more restful that being up and about.

Maybe not something to try today, but I found (still do) that fresh air and run around the park for 30 mins in the afternoon makes bedtime a lot easier. It is one of those things to judge carefully though - for all the reasons Mashi posted. Fresh air and an active day makes us all sleep better than lounging around indoors BUT there are days when indoors is best simply because it's low key and gets them through to bedtime.  :)

Have just seen Mashi's next post..... hmmmmmm indeed. Me? I'd flip a coin indecisively over a really quiet afternoon with 6pm bed / sleep time OR out, fresh air in pram and fingers crossed those eyes shut for 20 mins, to get through to bedtime.

I usually went with the latter - tiring out and hoping for a brief shut of eyes in the buggy! Success here was 50 / 50.  :-\

Offline Mashi

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2009, 14:06:13 pm »
My least concern would be the staying in the room. I would try to work on routine issues and sleep amounts FIRST, get things on track and deal with the other parts later.  We went through the same thing, the not wanting us to leave, from about 10 - 11.5 months.  It passed easily on its own.

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2009, 14:18:21 pm »
I'd stay in the room with him, keep it dark and have some quiet time. Keep LO in the cot if you can, if you can't just keep it calm and quiet. If you can.

My thinking was for this nap only, to increase your chances of getting LO to get back to sleep from an OT nap, or at least get some really quiet restful time. For us, there have been times where waiting it out in DS's room til he gets to sleep has been worth it. But that's for us.

Thing is. It's a personal choice. All we can do is advise or tell you what we'd do / or have done in that situation. But you know your LO best. If you think there's no chance of getting back to sleep or having quiet time, then maybe cut your losses and look to how to get to bedtime.

It is hard. Some LOs really hit a rough patch at this age, at the start of the transition and as much as I'd like to give a definitive answer of x amount of a time on y hrs sleep, I can't. It is watching your baby for cues, patterns and baby whispering. And no one gets it right every single day. Especially during the rough patches.  ;)

DS is up so it's time to get out and run around the park with him for an hour. For the second time today.

Offline Mashi

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2009, 14:20:54 pm »
Thing is. It's a personal choice. All we can do is advise or tell you what we'd do / or have done in that situation. But you know your LO best. If you think there's no chance of getting back to sleep or having quiet time, then maybe cut your losses and look to how to get to bedtime.

It is hard. Some LOs really hit a rough patch at this age, at the start of the transition and as much as I'd like to give a definitive answer of x amount of a time on y hrs sleep, I can't. It is watching your baby for cues, patterns and baby whispering. And no one gets it right every single day. Especially during the rough patches.  Wink

My thoughts summed up very well. We speaking for each other today Char?

Offline *Becky*

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2009, 14:34:38 pm »
ok girls well he woke after 45 mins and only took 5 mins before he went back again (with my help) and then slept for another 25 so in total 1.10. Better than 45 mins though.

So...I am going to give him some fresh air at the park and a chance to move about as we had a v quiet afternoon yesterday and a terrible night so worth a try.

A times anyone??? I am still sort of thinking bed around 6pm even though I hate it but too short an A time??? Was awake 3.25pm.

Thanks again
bx




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Offline Mashi

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2009, 17:18:33 pm »
Probably too late for this now as I think you are in the UK and so it is already 6pm, but NO I would not try for a 6pm bedtime. I would keep the evening low key and be prepared for 630 if he is tired enough, but I would expect it to be more like 645 - 700 before he is asleep.   

(My DH *hates* when I say "be prepared for xxx bedtime but more like xxx" so I don't blame you if you find that unhelpful !! LOL!  I just mean in our case, to have bath done and be ready to rush things like pjs and bottle if need be and take him straight from bottle into bed, BUT also be prepared that after bath he may not be tired and may want to sit and read stories for 30 minutes....)

Let us know how it goes/went!

Offline *Becky*

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2009, 17:23:50 pm »
oh why do I keep getting it wrong :(
I put him down at 6pm as he had been ear rubbing and he was asleep by ten past but I had to stay with him. I am a total hostage in that room, he will not fall alseep without me which is really stressing me out as I know that when he next wakes and I am not there he will cry and then this leads to OT. What do I do?




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Offline *Becky*

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2009, 17:27:04 pm »
another reason I did this was because yesterday he had more sleep than today and we went for 3 hour A time before bed and had a terrible night. What am I aiming for?




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Offline Mashi

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2009, 17:51:29 pm »
oh why do I keep getting it wrong :(
I put him down at 6pm as he had been ear rubbing and he was asleep by ten past but I had to stay with him.

Why do you think you did something wrong? Not sure I understand? You took him to bed when you felt was the right time, and he was asleep pretty quickly, I would say that was the absolute right thing to do!

I am a total hostage in that room, he will not fall alseep without me which is really stressing me out as I know that when he next wakes and I am not there he will cry and then this leads to OT. What do I do?

First of all, I don't consider needing to stay with your LO for ten minutes while he falls asleep being hostage to his room! I consider it putting your child down to bed! Ten minutes is nothing, needing to stay with an 11 month old child to provide them comfort and love and security before they fall asleep is parenting, it's a reality, and it's sort of the way it is, IMO. I know that you previously were able to put him in his bed and walk away, but you also have to keep in mind that little children go through different phases in life, and at different developmental stages they have different needs -- and these needs often come out at sleep time.  When he's 3 that might mean checking under the bed for him to shoo away the monsters....when he's 11 months it might mean helping him get through some separation anxiety by staying with him when he's going to sleep.   

When he wakes, how do you know that the only reason he is crying is because you aren't there? And how is that creating OT?  ???  He is crying out for you, yes, but that does not necessarily mean that he is crying because you were there when he fell asleep and are not there now. It very well could mean that, and that is totally 100% normal in separation anxiety and the only way to combat it is to continually reassure him that you are there for him when he needs you, and it will pass.  It is a phase of life, all babies go through it, some take it harder than others, but it is not abnormal and letting it stress you out will not help him get past it.   

But he can be waking from many many other things. Eleven months is a prime age for some massive teething to be going on - teeth could be shifting under the gums and causing him a lot of pain. So it could be the pain that is waking him, and he is crying out because his mouth hurts and he wants you to do something about it!  When he wakes at night have you tried a topical gel like Orajel or Bonjela? They get to work pretty quickly, and they are most effective when the pain is closer to the gum as the tooth starts to cut.  You can also use Calpol, Tylenol, Nurofen, etc as a dose before bed and some parents try a dose when they go to bed later on and administer it like a dream feed - just tiptoe in and try to give it to LO with a syringe without waking them.  You could also try teething powders, many moms have lots of luck with them, although I personally have never tried them.

Also, I do not believe it is right to say that NWs cause OT.  I think NWs can be a sign of OT, but not so much the cause of it provided you are encouraging good naps to make up for it in the day. It's one reason why I feel that being too focused on an A time and insisting that LO needs to be on a certain A time is not always good...if your LO is waking for a long period in the night time or waking several times in the night, then they WILL start the day off tired (think of how you feel in the morning if you have been up in the night).  If you can have a nap in the day BEFORE that point where adrenaline kicks in and you get your second wind, then that nap is restful and helps to make up for some of the sleep you lost the previous night.  But, if you push and push and "get past it" then often you CAN'T sleep by the time you take your nap, or you don't take as long of a nap as you could have if you had gone down earlier. Adrenaline kicks in, your body runs in 'fight' mode and you become energised.  Over time, then, if you don't get to sleep and let this cycle continue, then it just causes more problems.  Pushing that first A time to 4 hours just because that time is age appropriate may be taking him past that optimal time in the morning when he could have had a good nap in to rest him up from the interrupted night sleep.  And then adrenaline is kicking in.  So an NW did not cause OT, the long stretch until a first nap on an unrestful night is what caused the OT.   Does that make any sense?

Offline *Liz*

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2009, 18:10:04 pm »
((Hugs)) for today Becky - although reading now from an outsider perspective it actually looks like you did a REALLY good  job there.

I don't think you did the wrong thing with an early bedtime - if you were getting his tired signs then he was tired!! Actually I think I have messed my boy up so many times pushing for a 'long enough' A to bed, when actually he was shattered already.

I'm afraid I never went through the SA at bedtime - but Mashi and Charlotte are giving you great advice there  :). Personally I would see it as a phase to ride through - just like when they start sitting or standing in the cot. And it will end just like those stages did.

((hugs))

Offline *Becky*

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2009, 18:15:51 pm »
Yes everything you have said makes perfect sense and I really really appreciate you sticking with me. :)
Of course I feel stressed - I am a inexperienced first time mum and this is a hard hard time for me but it really helps when you explain it like this to help me see that this is a natural phase for babies to go through. I am a worrier naturally as you can probably tell and I just panic and think that I am ruining my DS sleep as it used to be so good (at night anyway) We have always just kissed him, put him in bed and left the room so yes
it does freak me out a bit when he is SO upset at nap and bedtime.
So...let's think about tomorrow. I am thinking that if the night is good we go for roughly 3.5 A (45 min nap) possibly 3 hour a time (nap for 1.5 hopefully) and then not sure depending on nap length.
If it is a bad night again I guess I keep the first A time short like you said - I guess follow his cues if there are any but maybe 3 hours max???
I find the A time at the end of the day the hardest to work out as tbh DS shows tired signs whenever he has had a bath as he is kind of programmed to know that is sleep time. Am I aiming for around 3.5-4 on a good nap?
I don't want to sound A time obsessed but I do have to go by A times quite a bit as his cues are often either not there or unreliable and particularly at the moment he may give a cue and still be hard to get down or not nap well. A times give me a structure to base everything on that's all.
I have tried to cover all the bases tonight- gave him calpol incase it is a teeth issue and put more clothes on him incase he is cold.
Thanks again...
bx




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Offline Mashi

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2009, 18:21:29 pm »
With bedtime, the main thing for me to judge bedtime with is what time my DS woke up. If all esle fails through the day that is my decision making thing - in bed 12 hours after he woke. When he was about 13 months or so, he started taking 12.5 hour days, and so that is the decider with bedtime.  HTH!!

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Re: expert help needed for spirited 11.5 month old going through 2:1
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2009, 18:25:30 pm »
Hi  :)

I've been following along with your thread as I've also got a spirited 11.5 year old going through 2:1!  It's a confusing time as most people have already said, and it's easy to feel like you're doing the 'wrong' thing, or that everything is terrible - BUT it's so important to keep it in perspective when you're going through it or otherwise it will just drive you crazy  ::) :P!!  We had a rough time when my lo was younger (in pain with acid reflux all the time so would scream for hours each day, for months) and I had to make sure I was getting out of the house for a walk, and making time to ENJOY my lo....otherwise I found the naptimes horrid as I wound end up feeling really angry with him.  
Sooo I've not got any better advice than what the other ladies have said (I'm taking it on board for myself  :)), apart from make sure you get some real fun A time with your little boy over the next few days while you're working on his naps (I personally find chasing my little boy around the house on our knees is great fun as well as great for tiring him out for his next nap  ;) ;D)

((hugs))