Naps getting shorter...any advice?

[~Lori~]

hope the night goes well for you!

[~Sara~]

Well, catnap lasted until about 5:50.  He woke up fussing from it...but that's how he always has been for the catnap.  Was in bed by 7:15.  But, I went in to do w2s (because we're have the habitual waking at DF again), and he was already stirring.  So I watched him...and he woke up and started crying.  DH is in there resettling him now.  Can't win for losin', it seems

Update: okay, resettled.  So the waking was at 9:30, resettled by 9:40.  Now, however, he's awake again...and I can't figure out why.  Do you think he's OT, or is it habitual (he woke up around this time last night, too, but I assumed last night was bc of being OT)??  I just feel like the DF has totally messed him up at night.

[*Jo*]

I think he is OT, usually wake ups before midnight mean OT. I dont think the DF wouldve messed him up, perhaps tomorrow night do the W2S alot earlier, i used to do it around 8-8.30pm in case he decided to wake earlier.

am praying the rest of your  night goes better for you!

[~Sara~]

Will do it tomorrow night   Will get off my lazy bum and just do it!  No excuses...even if I'm watching "The Office" reruns

[~Lori~]

We had a couple wake ups before midnight last night too.  Can't win sometimes huh??

[~Sara~]

I know!  I just wish I could press that nifty Staples' EASY button and have everything fall into place for him.  But alas, the fates ignore my desperate pleas (some form of schadenfreude, I'm convinced).

So, here's what last night and today (so far, at 4:15p) looked like:

NW 9:30
NW 11--resettled him both times within 15 minutes
NW 3:30--fed him (4 oz)

EW 6:20--we let him go as he woke up just babbling and making happy noises like he does at his normal wake up time of 7-7:15; but then started crying, so DH did PU/PD with him bc it was an EW.  Were we right to use PU/PD here?  And, I have to say, that this not settling after an EW is really rare for him--in fact, I think this is only the 2nd or 3rd time it's ever happened (and 1st time in about 1.5 months).

E: 7 (3.5 oz)
S: 9:05-9:55--I know that we really pushed this A time, but we were out and about this morning and had no choice.  It's weird to me, though, that after 2h45 of A time that he only slept for 50 minutes, as I thought this was a typical UT nap time.  Huh...  We tried to resettle him until 10:30, but by then his cry was turning into a hunger cry (he's been eating only 3-4 oz in the am bc of his NW feed--I never give him more than 4 oz at those, but maybe I need to cut back??)

E: 10:40 (5 oz)
S: 12-2
E: 2 (5 oz)
S: 4:05 ...

And that's where we are now.  Hopefully, we'll get a 40-45 minute catnap and the rest of our day will look like this:

A: 4:40-45
E: 6:10ish
S: by 6:30ish

Also, I put up the amount of formula he's taken in today.  It seems pretty low to me.  I know that some days, they're just not as hungry, but I think it's weird.  I just wonder if feeding him during the NW is throwing off his appetite in the AM, and then the rest of the day is off (like how he woke up early from the first nap bc, I believe, he was hungry).  I know that I don't have much an appetite in the ams, so maybe he's like me in that regard.  But any thoughts on this??  Should I go post on the Bottle Feeding board?

[*Jo*]

hmmm the bottle feeding does seem a little low, im no expert on this though, and we use mls not oz so im a little lost in that regards perhaps post on the Bottle board if you are concerned

EW where they dont settle is once again another indication of needing more A time (just what you wanted to hear im sure!) weve been having 10 hour nights the last week or so and i finally upped Calebs A time yesterday by only 15mins and he did an 11 hour night solid so that shows you how just a small adjustment of A time can affect their nightsleep!
personally i wouldnt do Pu/Pd as he is really only trying to make up his A time then that hes not getting during the day.

[~Sara~]

Well, we're shooting for 2h15 of A time...should I give it a couple more days and see if he's still doing the EWs?  I would think that if so, I should up his A time more?

Also, what did you think about his first nap today?  Only 50 minutes after 2h40 of A time?  I just don't see how THAT could be UT for not even being 5 months!

Lastly, he woke up at 4:40, after a 35 minute nap.  I know he's still tired.  What do you recommend for bedtime?  Keep it at 6:30?  Move it forward to 6?  Earlier?  I'm going to skip the bath and massage tonight as I think that will only rile him up in his current state.

[*Jo*]

Im not sure about that first nap, i think its hard to tell until you get the A times sorted, but perhaps something woke him?

I would give him an early bedtime at 6/6.15 or he might get extremely OT, keep an eye on how tired hes getting and if hes really showing tired signs then just put him to bed when hes telling you he needs it. keep an eye on EW's make note of the times and see if its starting to become habitual.

let me know how bedtime goes

[~Sara~]

hmmm the bottle feeding does seem a little low, im no expert on this though, and we use mls not oz so im a little lost in that regards perhaps post on the Bottle board if you are concerned

EW where they dont settle is once again another indication of needing more A time (just what you wanted to hear im sure!) weve been having 10 hour nights the last week or so and i finally upped Calebs A time yesterday by only 15mins and he did an 11 hour night solid so that shows you how just a small adjustment of A time can affect their nightsleep!
personally i wouldnt do Pu/Pd as he is really only trying to make up his A time then that hes not getting during the day.

Well, including tonight's DF, he's had a total of 25 oz so far today; that comes out to be ~740 mls.  I'm going to see how the rest of the night goes, and if he wakes up really hungry, I'm only going to give him 3 oz so that he'll be less inclined to skip out on a good breakfast (I think that's what Tracy recommends doing: cutting back by an oz each night and putting that ounce in the day sometime).

THANK YOU for the clarification on the EWs.  That put today into perspective, and if he does it tomorrow and won't resettle, then we'll just start our day.  Can I just say that I know tomorrow is going to be bad: we have church (he only naps for about 45 minutes) and then we're supposed to go over to my in-laws' for the afternoon and evening.  I know DH wants to see him fam and that they want to see Aaron, but it's so hard for him to sleep over there, and then we have to leave early to make it home in time for his bedtime.  Ugh   Plus, they are constantly in his face and riling him up after his horrible naps (which I feel like a routine-nazi about implementing as DH doesn't back me up).  Ugh again...sorry to unload.  Life's been really hard lately.

Okay *big breath* here's how tonight went...and it wasn't pretty:

Bedtime: in his crib by 6:15, but wouldn't stop squirming and looking around the crib/close his eyes until 7.
NW: 8 (but settled himself, surprisingly)
NW: 9:30 (did w2s at 9.  Had intended to do it between 8-8:30, but the waking threw me off.  I don't think I did a good job...obviously).  Resettled by 9:40
NW: 10--just went ahead and gave him the DF

So, that's where we are now.  These past few days, I've felt like a completely failure.  It seems that when I try to tweak things and adjust his routine and follow suggestions, that I can't.  It stinks.  Just one of those days where I wish I could be completely by myself with Aaron.

[*Jo*]

hey i know what you mean, Sundays are our "off" days as well, Caleb doesnt sleep at all at church for us so we just wing the whole day, ive stopped stressing about Sundays to be honest, its always gonna be a day that doesnt go well and we cant live indoors all of their babyhood. I also know what you mean about people riling him up, even when ive said "please dont hype him up" they still do *sigh* even worse is when he starts crying cos theyve hyped him up, it means he just watns to be left alone and they think its cos he wants to be hyped up more! people just dont get it do they!

Well looks like tonights gonna be interesting for you. I would say 740mls is only a bit under, we used to aim for 800-900mls at that age but its ok for it to be a bit under, i would start cutting back the bottle once you have the naps sorted a bit better, dont do too much at once or you wont know what issue you will be dealing with next and that will really do your head in!

I would say that squirming until 7 was him still OT and not being  able to settle properly, good to hear he resettled himself at 8pm though.

Tomorrow at church just let it go, dont worry about the routine at all. or what we used to do was if we knew there was something on in the afternoon we were going to have to be at we would miss church (not ideal i know) so he could at least get one good nap in for the day

[~Sara~]

Yeah, normally I just kind of let Sundays happen, too.  I AP a ton at church to get him to sleep...and I'm okay with that.  It's harder with the kinds of days and nights we're having lately to be so nonchalant about it, though   LOL, sad thing is, the more we're on EASY, the harder it is to not think about "the routine.

Re: the formula amounts.  What you said makes me feel better.  We got a pamphlet at Aaron's 4 month check-up that said most babies his age were eating 6-7 oz every 4-5 hours.  And here he is at 5 months struggling to get 5...I'll just see how the next couple of days go because he's stopping and acting full, not like he's in pain and can't eat (like with reflux).

Re: night feed...maybe what I'll do instead of cutting back right away is offer him some more formula right before his first nap, to top him off.  That way, our day doesn't get thrown off due to him waking from hunger, like he did this morning.

Also, I seem to remember you saying at one time or another that you stopped giving Caleb baths at night because they were too stimulating right before bed.  Am I remembering that correctly--was that really you?  If so, did you put something in its place in the bedtime routine to signal to him that it was bedtime and not just a nap?  I've been thinking about nixing the bath at night as a rule of thumb for a while and doing it mid-day.

[*Jo*]

hey with the formula amounts, Caleb has only just started eating 6oz per bottle recently! they know how much they need.

with the baths, yep that might have been me, they used to be calming for him when he was really young but now they are stimulating so sometimes i cut it out altogether and just give him a wash, otherwise we do the bath about 2 hours before bedtime, it was tough at first because he so associated bathtime with bedtime that he would be tired right afterwards but hes gotten used to it now. the thing thats always been different about beddtime is the bedtime bottle. since Caleb was about 5 months old i did the same routine for naps and bedtime, the only difference was the bedtime bottle. so we go into his room, feed, read two stories, cuddles and prayer with the lights off as we are heading towards the cot then into the cot, tuck in,kiss goodnight, tell him i will see him in the morning (and hope that he takes notice of that!) and out the door i go. Bedtime has always been the only time i have never had any trouble with him, even if hes OT.

[brenda2]

Hey
re bottle amounts.. My lo is bf but I do give her the bottle sometimes and she has never taken more than 4.5 oz. Maybe she gets more in a bf who knows! I doubt it as whenever I pump I can't get more than about 4 oz. Also she refluxes and spits a lot of that
milk up.  My dd1 at 7 mo when we went to bottle feeding would get 28-32 oz in a day plus food. But they take more as they get older and are all different. Dd2 I don't think needs a feed at night anymore as she hasn't taken one 4 out of the last 8 nights despite not eating much at each feed. She does eat for a very long time thought the morning after going without a feed.

[*Jo*]

Brenda - i dont know much about bf but i was told that when you pump you dont necessarily get the same amount out that your LO would if she were at the breast, they can get more out of you than the pump can (clever little people arent they!)