New here and need help please!!

[Flightmommy]

Ok, so nap 2 lasted 40 minutes... ( so went down at 1:15 and slept till 1:55) I tried my best to get him to resettle, rocking, shshing, even pulled out the good old swing...but he was inconsolable...just hysterically crying and sooo overtired. After he calmed down, I did our 3:30 breastfeed a bit early and put him in the stroller....he finally fell asleep at 4:30 and i let him sleep for 30 minutes....we've now just finished dinner and i'm planning on a 7:15-30pm bedtime, but am really afraid of getting a super EW tomorrow!! When he's on this OT train, he can't seem to do more than a 10.5 night. Also, based on today's naps, i think i may just have to do a very short A time tomorrow morning...i'm always afraid of putting him down UT, but i'm just going to have to risk it, as what i've been doing lately doesn't seem to be working anyways.While a 2:15-30 A time seems unreasonably short for an almost 9 month old, anything longer hasn't been working, so i'll give that a try...but i welcome ANY suggestions or advice, i'm really at a lost...i just don't know where my nice scheduled baby has gone, but i want him back!! I feel like all I do all day is work on naps, or worry about the upcoming nap etc.....no fun at all!!

[Flightmommy]

We actually had a great night....DS was in bed at 7:20pm and asleep by 7:30, not a peep! And woke at 6:55am, so almost an 11.5 hour night...yay!! Maybe that last catnap yesterday did help after all....just hoping today is a better day and I won't need to do a catnap. I'm just wondering about the A time for this morning....I feel like we've got a nice clean slate to start with and don't want to mess it up...he is so easy to get overtired but doesn't give any sleepy cues!! Also, should the first A time be the shortest...i always thought it could be the longest since they've had their longest sleep(night) right before.
  Any suggestions for this morning's A time? Should I keep it on the short end just in case? Thanks so much!

[Flightmommy]

First nap was 40 minutes again!!! Ughh, I just can't seem to get it right......after 2.30 A time, I started our wind down, although he was showing NO SIGNS of being tired, and it took him 30 minutes to fall asleep, which means he had exactly 3 hours A time....he fussed and moaned during that 30 minutes, but no real crying, so was he OT or UT?? Should I cut back on the next A time by very much?? I was soo hoping for a better day..sigh!!

[Shiv52]

Great news on the great nights sleep!!!  The catnap would have meant he wasn't OT going to bed!!  yay!!!  

I was posting at the same time.  Have you ever done wake to sleep with your LO?  Am wondering if you got went in and stirred him about 30/35 minutes into a nap would it help him readjust and get past that 40-45 minute mark.  Does your LO use a dummy?

With my LO, UT is usually taking ages to go asleep but happy enough.  OT is taking ages to go to sleep but screaming and very unsettled. 

What was your A time that worked before all this madness started?

With the 40 minute nap, I'd aim for an A time of 2.30/2.45 or when he shows sleepy signs to go for the next one. 

[Shiv52]

Just adding, don't feel too disheartened, last night was great as was the night before so you ARE making progress!  Remember it can take up to 5 days to see real changes especially if OT is involved! 

[Flightmommy]

So for the second nap, i started winddown early, at 2.15 A time. DS just layed in his crib for a long time, not even moving really, just doing the 7 mile stare!! lol! He finally fell asleep at the 2.35 A time mark and slept for 1:25 minutes...yay!! longest nap in days!! However, it ended at 2:35pm, which would make his A time to bedtime slightly too long, so I may need to squeeze in a quick cat nap. On sat, his last A time was 2:35 till 7pm and the next morning we had a 5:30am wake up...ughh!! So trying to avoid that again.
   Looks like shorter A times are best for DS right now...however, what does a 1:25 nap mean? I thought sleep cycles were in 45 minute segments??
 

[Shiv52]

Yay on the longer nap!!  That must feel good.  I would go with the shorter A times for now and see can you get a good run of things.  I think your LO will need his A time increased very gradually in 5 minute intervals once its time to do that. 

I think his naps will extend once he is back on track.  Not sure what the significance of 1.25 nap is!  Was he hungry?  Am just pleased that he had a longer nap.  After last nights good sleep as well you really seem to be making progress.  Well done!! 

Let me know how tonight goes and if you got the catnap or went for earlier bedtime!

[Flightmommy]

I did decide to go with the catnap, although it wasn't easy...DS fought it tooth and nail, but finally fell asleep at 5:20 for about 20 minutes. I did a bit of a later bedtime and he was asleep by 8pm. Woke this morning at 6:30, which isn't too early, but considering the bedtime, that is only a 10.5 hour night and it shows!! He is quite low energy and not his usual perky self...so I think I should factor that into his A time....i'm aiming for 2:30-40 A time this morning. If he happens to have a good nap, is the second A time usually longer than the first or the same? I'm just hoping to avoid the dreaded catnap, after almost 9 months, i'm really tired of them!! lol
  Thanks so much!

[Flightmommy]

WOOOHOOO!! DS has been sleeping for just over 2 hours.....with an A time of 2.45 this morning!! I'm thinking of waking him so that he'll nap better this aft and then early bedtime...but this is just sooo great!! Thought I'd let you know!
  Thanks!

[Shiv52]

I totally understand about the cat nap! 


And wooooooo hooooooo on the nap!!!!  I'd not extend the A time too much-maybe go for 2.45-3 hours.  Hopefully he'll be well rested from his lovely long nap and be her usual happy self! 

Let me know how you get on.  If you can get another good nap (or even a just OK nap!) you shouldn't need to do a catnap and have a normal bedtime! 

[Flightmommy]

Well, our second nap wasn't so great, about 40 minutes and that was really my fault....we had gone out for lunch and I tried my best to get back in time, but obviously didn't.....we started our wind down at 2.45 A time and he was in the crib around 2.55 A time, but fussed and rolled around till 3.15 A time at which point he fell asleep and slept 40 minutes. Since he woke around 3:30pm, I opted against the catnap and made sure he was in bed just before 7pm. It's now 7:15 and he's asleep..I just hope that last A time wasn't too long, considering the short nap.....it may just end up causing an EW tomorrow!! Either way, my lesson of the day is SHORTER  A times!!! I know his A times don't really correspond to his age group, so i'm wondering if I should be concerned that he can't stay awake any longer than that?
  Also, how long should I stay at these A times before trying to slowly increase them?
  Thanks!

[Shiv52]

So how did last night go? 

I think overall yesterday went great!  Even if the 2nd nap wasn't great, am pleased you didn't need a catnap and got him to bed easily!  Here our last A time was always the longest so I wouldn't worry too much about that. 

I wouldn't be concerned about his A times being shorter than typical, some babies are like that.  I'd wait until your naps have evened out, even if you have one long and one shorter and a good night and then start gradually pushing the A times.  At this stage I don't think there is any point as he is nearly out of his OT cycle but as you can see from yesterday when the A time is too long, it is leading to a shorter nap.  Don't beat yourself up about that though.  You have to live and have to get out and about!   But I do think your goal has to be to increase the A times so you can get rid of the catnap once and for all. 

Is he teething?  That can lead to needing shorter A times too. 

Looking forward to hearing how your night and day have went!

[Flightmommy]

Hi there!
  Our night went quite well...DS woke at 6:50am and had an almost 12 hour night! I was cautious not to keep him too long this morning and he went down after 2.45 A time...seemed to get past the 30-45 minute jolts, but then woke at the 1 hour mark...he's hardly ever done this, so i'm rather confused as to what it means...OT or UT?? I don't think it was UT as he was fussy during our wind down and pushing me away, so I just layed him in his crib...he moaned a bit and rolled around before falling asleep. I really don't think he's teething either...he's quite happy overall, but gets grizzly very easily as that is his temperament anyways.
  For his second nap, i'm aiming to start wind down at the 2.20 mark and hope that he gets a loooong nap......i really don't want to do a catnap!!
    Thanks!

[Flightmommy]

Second nap wasn't that great either....went down at 1:15pm, which was about 2.40 A time after his 1 hour nap in the am....woke after 40 minutes and my attempt to resettle him (shhshing and lovey) was successful but he only slept an additional 20 minutes and woke at 2:20.....once again needing a catnap!! I just don't get it...is he OT or UT...and if it's OT, how much earlier can I put him down...his A times are similar to those of a 6 month old baby!!
  Thanks!

[Shiv52]

Looking at your day yesterday, I think he was maybe UT going down as he'd had such a good nights sleep and that led to the 1 hour nap which wasn't enough to be totally restorative. The next nap wasn't bad (1hr 20 altogether despite the wakening) and its great you got him back to sleep. 


Typical sleep for your LO is:

9 months old                                                          2 naps of 1.5 hours each;
                                                                                11-12 hours at night

So overall yesterday he did 12 hours nighttime and 2 hour 20 daytime sleep so not bad.

How did last night go?  I think it might be time to start stretching his A times a bit.  You'd be aiming for a routine like this:

7am:  Wake up
10am:  Nap
11.30am:  Wake up  (1.5 hrs)
2.30pm:  Nap
4.00pm: Wake up
7pm:  Bedtime

If he has a good night I'd go for a slightly longer A time and see how that nap goes.  If it goes well, extend the next A time too. 

I'd be tempted to try it as I think he's probably caught up on a lot of the OTness now.  Remember it can take a few days to see a change.  If it were me and I were getting short naps and having to do a catnap I'd want the A times to extend.  He is at the stage where sleep goes wonky a lot of the time anyways.  This has some good info on changing routines and how best to do it!  I don't think you are at the stage of shortening the naps yet obviously but in terms of extending the A time it has useful info!

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=145285.0


So i guess what I'm saying is start increasing the A times.  You are getting short naps anyways and he might just need a consistent hand to get used to the longer A times for a few days and help extending his naps if he wakes. 

What do you think?  How'd last night go?