New here and need help please!!

[Flightmommy]

Thanks for the info...we did end up needing the catnap yesterday and so, he slept from 5-5:30pm and went down for bedtime at 7:30, asleep by 7:45pm.....didn't extend his night at all as he woke at 6:15am and so had yet another 10.5 hour night. Consequently, I don't think today would be the day to start streaching the A times, so i'll stick to a shorter one to see if we can't get a good nap. It seems we are in this chronic cycle of getting up early and thus, naps are early and we end up needing the catnap to make it to bedtime...and i don't want to make bedtime any earlier to encourage the early wakings, so how do I get out of this horrible cycle??
  Thanks!

[Shiv52]

So how's yesterday and last night go? 

I understand about the chronic cycle of EWs then the rest of the day is messed up. 

I think though if his A times are short then a cat nap is inevitable unfortunately unless you want to try for an earlier bedtime and see when it catch him up. 

I think I would start stretching the A times even if he only has a 10.5 hour night.  Some LOs need to push in the right direction of extending their A times and need you to help manage them for them.  If you don't get the A times extended you run the risk of him not getting enough daytime A time and it will effect daytime sleep and then your night. 

When I extended A time I made sure for the last hour of A time, I gave my LO my undivided attention.  If I didnt she became grisly and hard to settle when nap time came round.  I always did something like singing songs, walk outside and then for last half hour did a long wind down.  After a few days she was managing the longer A times much better and naps were better as she was having enough A time.

Do you think he's ready for that jump yet?

[Flightmommy]

Yes, I think he may be going in that direction...I did extend this morning's A time a bit since he had a great night, went to sleep last night at 7pm and woke this morning at 6:30 and that was also due to a great day nap wise yesterday...1.5 nap in the morning and 2 HOUR NAP in the afternoon!!! yay!!  So I figured he was quite caught up with sleep and extended him to 3 hours of A this morning ( yesterday's A times prior to those great naps were 2.45 and 2.50)....he's down now for his am nap and has been for almost 40 minutes!! This is usually his deciding moment.....get past the jolts or wake!! He went down really well and didn't fuss too much or take very long to settle, so i'm keeping my fingers crossed for a great nap!
   If this 3 hour A time seems to work, how long should I keep him there before i move it up?
  Uh, oh...never mind, he just woke...ughhhh!!

[Shiv52]

Great naps yesterday!  And great nights sleep! 

How about going in about 35 minutes into a nap and just being there in case he wakes at the 40 minute mark so you can settle him quicker? 

How about sticking to 2 hr 50 min A time for a few days (as thats longer than he had been doing at the beginning of the week) and see does that help with the naps and then extend by 5 minutes after that every few days? 

Did he resettle?  Seems he needs VERY gradual increase in A time!!

[Flightmommy]

Yes, he did resettle, completely on his own within just a few seconds and ended up sleeping a total of 1 hour and 20 minutes, so i'll definitely keep the next A time just under 3 hours and hope it's a long nap, and no need for the catnap! He's definitely very sensitive to the increase in A time, huh?

[Shiv52]

For sure!  But its one of those situations where if you don't increase the A time he's not going to be tired enough overall to keep his naps and night time sleep and so it goes on!

Great news on the resettling!! Woo!!  I'd stick to just under 3 hour A time and see how the next nap goes.  If you get a few days like that then you could add 5 minutes to each A time until he's at 3 hours!  Get rid of that pesky catnap once and for all!

Typical A times are:

8 - 10 months 3 - 4 hours. Some are getting more.
11 - 12 months 3.5 -4.5 hours

So if he stayed at 3 hours for a bit then build up to 3.5 by 11-12 months he'll be doing great! Hold onto those two naps as long as possible!!!   

Let me know how today goes! 

[Flightmommy]

Hi there!
  Our second nap started at 1:45pm, so an Atime of 2.55, although i started windown quite early as he was tired and rubbing his eyes, he still took awhile to fall asleep, just doing the infamous 7 mile stare in his crib. That nap lasted exactly an hour and I tried to resettle but it didn't work. Since he woke at 2:45, I took a chance and skipped the catnap (i think it would have been too late anyways) and he's been in bed for the night and sleeping since 6:50...although he just stirred a bit and cried out (after 40 minutes of sleeping) which he NEVER does, so I'm thinking he was really overtired. I was really on the fence about doing the catnap or not....the fact that he only had an hour of sleep between his am nap and bedtime was probably too much Atime for him to handle. I should probably expect an EW tomorrow morning!!
   Will update in the morning...thanks again for all your help, much appreciated!! 

[Shiv52]

let me know how the night goes.  I'd be inclined to try and get him through to bedtime and leave the catnap although if you start having EWs we may need to rethink.  Lets see how tonight goes!

[Flightmommy]

Well, I was right about the EW...I woke at 6am to find DS fully awake and just laying in his crib.....he typically stays in there every morning and plays for quite some time...anywhere from 30 minutes to even 1:15!! And then, once he's had enough, he starts to cry....since I didn't see him wake, I really have no idea what time he first opened his eyes, which makes it really hard to figure out his Atime because his sleepy cues aren't very reliable (often too late or too early).
   So, I just took the 6am waking and went from there....his first nap started at 9am and he went down without a peep, so I thought, good, maybe I got it right....WRONG!!! He woke about 35 minutes later and I know that's supposed to mean OT, but I'm starting to wonder if that's true with DS...he woke calmly from this 35 minute nap and just layed in his crib and played for another 20, so I'm thinking he was UT?? But yet, he had (at least) a 3 hour A time before....it's just a mystery really!! lol!!
  I was careful about his following A time and started windown at 2.15, I knew I needed extra time as we had lots of house guests over for lunch and he was very overstimulated...he fell asleep after 2.35 A time and slept 1.25 (with a short waking at 40 minutes but he resettle on his own). He's definitely going to need a catnap since that last nap ended around 1:40pm and i'll also keep bedtime early...I'm wondering if I'll ever get him back to his 7am wake ups!! And with next weekend's daylight saving time change, it's just going to get more challenging!!!
  Will update later!

[blessedbear]

Hi,
I have been reading your posts and feel your pain.  calebsmummy has been helping me enormously as my LO needs more A time and it's like winning the lottery when you get the final combo of A time to get that good nap.  I wanted to tell you not to be scared to try W2S.  Some LO's just need help transitioning.  My DD is a great independent sleeper goes down within 10 minutes but lately have been stuck on 35 - 45min naps.  I did try it once but realized our issue is finding the correct A time but after trying it and extending 30 min nap to an hour I would not hesitate to try W2S again.  Good luck!

[Shiv52]

I totally agree.  By the time you find the right A time LOs can be stuck wakening from naps early. 

How about going in about 35 minutes into a nap and just being there in case he wakes at the 40 minute mark so you can settle him quicker?

I think wake to sleep is great to get them out of the habit. They sometimes just need help for a few days with the transition rather than hoping the nap is longer but then them being too away to settle back to sleep so you are stuck with a short nap.  Although to be fair your LO has been resettling himself the last few days so I would monitor it and see how you go. 

How'd last night go? 

[Flightmommy]

Well, last night was unusual....he went down fine at 7:30 (after a catnap from 4:50-5:20pm) and then woke at 4:30am!! Ds hasn't had a NW in sooo long, i can't even remember, other than NW related to illness. And I know that it was a NW and not a super EW cause he was crying, so i went in and checked on him, no dirty diaper, no fever, etc....he kept trying to resettle on his own and would close his eyes for a few moments, then reopen and stir, etc...this went on for over an hour!! Then, finally just before 6am I decided to feed him, since I figured if he were to fall asleep, he'll wake soon from hunger and won't have had enough rest to recover from this NW. Once he ate, he fell asleep immediately and slept till 8:30am!! Oh, sooo off our schedule now!! But who's kidding who, we haven't had a proper schedule for weeks now!! lol!
  So obviously, first nap will be around 11:30 ish and so on....do I continue like that and do an 8:30 bedtime to ensure a 12 hour day? Although this would be a twist in our sked, I'm looking ahead at the daylight savings time change this upcoming weekend and am thinking it may work out perfectly if I keep him on 8:30-8:30 for the week, then after the time change, he'll just automatically go to 730-7:30? But that NW is still boggling my mind?? Really don't want to start up with those again!!
  And thank you Blessedbear for reading my post.....Shiv52 also suggested the W2S and if DS continues to wake early from his naps this week, I will consider it. He does resettle quite easily on his own though and some naps, he doesn't even wake and will even sleep 1.5 -2 hours!! So, it must be something with getting the exact A time, cause he CAN definitely get over the jolts on his own, just not always!!
  Thanks!

[Shiv52]

How'd he get on today?  Sorry been out and about and only reading this now! 

Do you think he was hungry when woke at 4.30am or jusr got hungry as he was awake for so long?   

And good news on the lie in!  I know its not ideal but take the sleep when you can get it!! 

[Flightmommy]

Hey there!
  I haven't been on in awhile, but wanted to give you a quick update....the day following that night with the NW was actually not too bad...kept A times to around 2.45-55 and he had a great am nap and then only 45 minutes in the afternoon but that was after a longer A time that I couldn't help as we were held up at the doctor's office...what can you do, life just gets in the way sometimes!! lol....Anyhow, that 45 minute nap was later in the day due to the late start to our day and so I just put him to bed earlier (7:30pm) and he slept till 7:45 the next morning....so fabulous night indeed!! And no NW either.....his naps that following day(which was yesterday) were good as well, both 1:20 with about 2.55 A time in between. Bedtime last night was at 7:30 and we had a NW (gasp!!!) at 2:30am for about 30 minutes....no dirty diaper, not wet, no fever...?? Don't know what's going on, but certainly don't want to have to join the NW boards!! He woke at 6:45 this morning and had a good 1:20 nap this morning and is down for his pm nap right now....been sleeping for 25 minutes, was quite grizzly while he settled so we'll see what he does...however, he's been getting through the jolts and resettling on his own quite well this week, so I'm not sure he needs the W2S on the occasions that he wakes...I think with him, it's more of  a "getting the right A time " issue. And I know that I absolutely need to start increasing that slowly...i'm wondering if that could be the cause of his newfound NW...that he needs more A time and is trying to get it during the night instead? Is that possible? Also, there's a possibility that he is teething and will soon cut a tooth, but seing as he doesn't have any yet, I have no experience in terms of his teething behavior and can't really say for sure that it's causing the NW.
  Anyways, the wakings are baffling to me as he rarely wakes and makes me think that there must be something wrong with him...but what?? Oh, if they could just talk this would be so easy!! LOL!!
  In terms of increasing the A times, how should I go about doing that when I'm never really sure when he's going to fall asleep or how long it will take to settle...i run the risk of him going over his max A time and then getting OT.
  Thanks!

[Flightmommy]

Well, today's pm nap wasn't great, woke around the 40 minute mark and wouldn't go back to sleep..tried for 40 minutes to resettle. He was absolutely MISERABLE following that nap and clearly very tired....I just don't get it, the A time prior to this nap was just under 3 hours, which is usually ideal for him!!?? Anyways, I knew he'd need a catnap and so I decided to try him in his crib, instead of having to go for a stroll/drive...I am so tired of having to go out for the catnap. Well, DS fought it hard and took forever to settle, but finally did!!! First catnap in his crib...EVER!!! lol!! Only took him 9 months!!( he turns 9 months tomorrow!!) He's been sleeping for 30 minutes now, so i think i'll wake him to ensure a decent bedtime!! Just thought I would share this mini success!!