EW NW and helpless mum after hol, pls help

[deckchariot]

{{{hugs}}}}  When she wakes that early, what do you do?  At 4:30, I'd treat that like a NW - it's too early for me to even be an EW!!

In terms of bedtime - doing it at 7 is probably good, although on days like today, you may need to do it even earlier.  What time is that first nap now?  And is the 2nd one still at 2:30 til 4ish?  For my dd, she only needed about 2.5 hrs between last nap and bedtime - that was her shortest A time of the day.  I know not every bub is like that.  And given that your last nap is the long nap, my guess is that she'll need around 3 hrs of A time between that nap and bed - at least.  If, however, the A time before bed is her longest A time, she may need even more than that.  It is a bit of a guessing game sometimes.  Hang in there!!

[miasmum79]

Hi when she wakes that early, we treat it like a nw, I say 'its sleepy time',pat, hand on back etc. But usually when she's up she's up!!
She had a slightly better day, still has that cold and is clingy but woke 0430, 1st nap 0730-0830 and 2nd nap 1230-1400, bedtime 1900, some nw at 220o and stirring at 5 and woke at 0530. It's nursery day today tho, so preparing for distruption again.
My Los A time between nap and bed has been abt 4 hrs I think, is that too long??

[deckchariot]

4 hrs between the last nap and bedtime isn't necessarily too long - though it does seem a bit longer for most bubs who are still on 2 naps.  It's possible she's OT at  bedtime and that's why you're getting the EWs.  Have you tried moving bedtime 30 min earlier?  So that last A time is only 3.5 hrs?  I'd keep handling the EWs like you are - just wish it would work better!

[miasmum79]

Hi an update. Must say tho that lo has a really bad cold and bronchiolitis. This wk I hv been dropping her to nursery after her 1st nap given she isn't feeling 100%.
On sun, NW at 0400 but managed to sleep and woke 0530 on mon, nap 0800-0930, at nursery 1400-1430. Bed at 1900
mon night was bad, with NW at 2300, 0230, and woke tues at 0420, nap 0730-0845, nap at nursery 1215-1300, catnap in car 1700-1730, bed 1900 but vomit due to cough and thus slept only by 2000. Slept till 2300. Then NW at 0400 but slept till and

today woke 0530, nap 0815-0930, difficult to put down for 2nd nap, she woke up coughing and I can hear her chirping now in the other room.
on all the above nights she has NW.
She us still in our bed coz I don't hv the heart to change that when she us unwell. And as of now I don't care she stays in my bed till she's 12 just so long as she sleeps. I now it's not ideal but I'm so desperate, my standards are low

I don't know what to do. She's not settling nap wise in nursery and the nights are reallyhorrible now. Is it just her being ill, but things were like this even before. I don't mind her waking at 0530 anymore but it's the waking abt 1hr beford and kicking abt I can't deal with. It shouldn't be this hard. I am feeling miserable and desperate.

Michelle or anybody pls help. I hv to go get her coz she's slept abt 15mins this nap and dh is not having any luck putting her back to sleep. Thank god for him.
Also what do I do tonite. She now wong sleep and has been up since abt 0930.

[deckchariot]

{{{{{hugs}}}} It's so, so, so hard when they are sick.  If she's ill, just do what you can to help her sleep.  We've found that a vaporizer in the room really helps - you can actually put some vicks scented stuff in the vaporizer that helps too - if she's congested and coughing, that's just going to make sleep a nightmare.  Are you using any medication?  If so, I'd give it to her at least 30 min before sleep time so it has a chance to take affect.  I would just do the best you can.  Most bubs when they are sick need more sleep, so I'd keep all her A times shorter than normal, and if her naps are short, then try for multiple catnaps in the day.  Don't worry at all about moving forward with transitioning to 1 nap at this point, just try to get her well.  She's no doubt OT, so I'd do early bedtime.  If she had a short nap and has been up since 9:30, I'd only give her maybe 2.5 hrs of  A time before putting her down again.  Most bubs can handle 3 -3.5 after a short nap, but since she's sick, she most likely won't make that.

Don't beat yourself up, she's not feeling well, and that just makes everything difficult.  Hang in there!!!

[miasmum79]

Hi things are progressively getting worse. She still wakes at abt 5, naps in nursery are not bril,, abt 1hr mid day. It's abt 6 when we bring her home, she rarely naps in the car and it's bec by 645-7pm. The NW continue, but offlate she has started NW at Abt every 1-2 hrs starting after bedtime and self soothes but sometimes needs us. She's still coughing and that dosent help! What are these early NWs.she now fights naps at home as well. I now don't get anytime with dh. We re so sleep deprived. How did all go so wrong? I dread nightimes now. Any advice

[deckchariot]

{{{{{{hugs}}}}} I'm guessing she's OT because of the poor naps because of being sick, and that's leading to more NWs which is making her more OT and the nightmare continues......Can you offer 2 naps during the day (or can nursery)?  I'm thinking she needs extra to catch up.  I'd even suggest going back to whatever 2 nap routine you were using prior to staring to transition to 1 nap, so not worrying about 1 short and 1 long - but 2 naps.  With the EW and bedtime not til 7ish and only an hour of day sleep, I think she's just super OT.

[miasmum79]

Hi. Nursery days are now ending up as 1 nap for abt 1hr around noon. She's been home past 2 days. Yesteday she woke at 0520 after few NWs. Naps 0830-1010, 1500-1545, bed by 0715. NWs are now usually around 2200-2300, 0400-0430 and finally wake at 0530-0545. however today she had an am nap for abt 1hr and absolutely refused the pm nap. After trying for an hr to get her to nap, I gave up. Managed to get her to bed by 1840. Any ideas what the nap refusal could be. If I can't get her to nap in her usaual surroundings,the nursery staff don't stand a chance getting her to sleep. Any ideas?also since she seems to be getting better we r planning to move her back to her room. so that should be fun. Dh is having her tonight so hopefully can get some sleep tonite. Btw thank u so much Michelle for ur support, I hope u know I really appreciate it.

[deckchariot]

I wouldn't make it without this site, so I'm happy to "pay it forward" whenever I can   I'm thinking that that super early am nap is probably backfiring on you and reinforcing those EWs.  That's the weird thing about the first nap being so early, but when you're bub is waking so early, it's hard not to put her down early.  I would try not to do the am nap before 9 or 9:30 and maybe keep that one shorter, and then do a pm nap at the time that nursery offers it (just to try to keep to their routine which is probably easier than asking them to keep to yours!).  That nap refusal could still be OT (as odd as that sounds).  How much A time was there between that wake up from the am nap and when you did the pm nap?  If she refuses one (or both) naps, I would definitely do an early bedtime.

here's to hoping for a good night's sleep!!

[miasmum79]

Thanks again. I never thot abt the am nap but will def try delaying it. Her A time seems shortest in the morning after waking. Our days hv been strange- some nights she has decent naps, but still wakes up early (0415 the day before),or she has disturbed sleep but wakes at 0545 (which to us is great!). Or there was a day when she woke super early, napped 45min in nursery but slept ok at night and  woke 0530 (which might seem early, but after the EWs we've been having, is pleasant). We never know what awaits us each night!!! Still haven't moved her out of our bed, don't seem to hv the energy or guts to go down that route....,but like I said before she can stay in our bed just so long as she sleeps coz it's been a hard 2 mos. Will keep u posted

[deckchariot]

let me know how you get on!

[miasmum79]

Hi on sun woke at 0545, 2 naps 0900-0945 and 1500-1610, bed 1930, few nws but up bt 0230-0500, then slept for 1hr. On mon nursery- 2 naps 1hr around noon and 1620-1700, bed at 1930, slept quite well and woke at 0600 (this wake up time hadn't happened for mos), tues nursery- slept 10-1030 and that's it, we got her in bed at 1915. Slept in stop and starts andwoke at 0515 today. She's Homs today and so far slept bt 00850-1010. Who knows what the pm will hold!! But will def try am nap around 9 like u advised- tried today to push her but got to 0850. She is so restless at night, she tosses and turns and moans and occ will pass a cry. Shell then sit up and lie back down-so even when she's 'sleeping' I'm not sure she is and I def am not. What could this be? Az u must hv guessed she's still in my bed!!!

[Peek-a-boo]

Hi there--Michelle's been giving you great advice! 

As she's mentioned, the main reasons for restless night wakings are 1) pain 2) being overly tired and 3) prop issues. 

It sounds like the worse her naps are, the more restless she is at night, so it seems like this is really likely an OT issue.  It's also possible that it's a prop issue.  You being there with her, although she thinks she wants that because it's what she's become used to, but I wonder if being in your bed may actually be making her sleep more restless--you move, you snore, etc. 

Personally, I'd move her back to her own bed and try to stabilize her nap routine so that her days are more likely to be like one another, which in turn may make her nights more predictable. 

[miasmum79]

Thanks bethany an yes michelle kinda adopted me and has been fab. I know she needs to go back to her own cot. When she used to be there, we hadstarted eith the ews but atleast we slept when she did, coz now her constant tossing means I never actually sleep and it's either me or dh coz she needs a lot of space! One of the main reason why she's stll on our bed (ignoring illness etc)is Im mortified by the whole process of shifting her back. Planning to start soon. it's going to be gw coz she tends to vomit if she cries. I thot of starting with naps. Her cot is too small for 2. Then the plan is to sit next to her on a chair until she sleeps and then leave. At night I'm going to lie on a mattress on the floor in her room. I'm not sure abt nws then- do I say calming words, or put my hand thro etc. I'm sure shell stand on her cot and cry. I feel really apprehensive abt all of this and very unsure and I'm sure shell pick up on that. At what point do I pick her up?? How did I let it get so bad! Looking forward to ur advice coz I need to explain this process to dh as well and get him on board. Thanks a ton again. I don't know what I'd do without u guys.

[Peek-a-boo]

Personally, when doing GW, I'd start on a mattress on her floor and stay there throughout the night.  If you get up and leave after she sleeps and she wakes up and you're gone, it may create a fear in her that you are going to "sneak" out while she's sleeping--so she'd better stay awake to keep an eye on you.  Ideally, you'll gradually drift your bed away from her bed (a few feet every 2-3 days), toward the door, eventually into the hall, so when you're gone, she's knows that you're gone.  

Personally, at this age I would do little or no picking up.  If anything, I would give a hug over the crib bars, but I'd keep even that to a minimum.  I would mostly lie on the bed next to her crib and give gentle verbal reassurance.  I'd do this at bed time and again at any night wakings.  

Here's a link to a thread (it's a little old, but I remember it because it was a friend of mine, lol) who did GW very successfully:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=106123.0.  It might help you make your game plan.  

{{{Hugs}}} I know it's scary to tackle, but it's so worthwhile in the end.