Are my DD NWs a related issue to BF???

[Sarah, Mom of 4]

I am posting my post from night waking issues here to get some feedback on whether it is a BF issue.  Someone thought I might be able to get some insight here on her NWs. 

I also have another question:  Can a BF baby actually prefer and do better on a bottle?  Reason I ask is because my DD seems to eat better from the bottle when she is given one.  Some of my nursing issues are below.  Another one that I did not mention is that she tends to spit up more after nursing than when she is given a bottle  whether it is formula or breast milk in the bottle.  I do not bottle feed her enough to confirm this theory...any thoughts?! 

My post from Night Wakings:
My DD is 3.5 months old and has just recently started to wake frequently at night.  In the past week and a half I have started her on the 3 hour EASY routine.  She has been doing great during the day and has started to take 1.5 hour naps in her crib.  I normally have to wake her up.  She has to share the room with her 8 year old sister.  I can normally get her to sleep with the shush pat method during the day BUT at night time she has been wanting the pacifier.  She is my 4th child and the only one to ever take the pacifier, so that aspect is new to me.  She has loved the pacifier ever since she was born!  She is almost exclusively breast-feed, she will get an occasional bottle of formula during the evening or outings in the car.  Before starting EASY I was doing a lot of accidental parenting that was developing a lot of bad habits for her and leaving me frustrated.  Like I said the day is great BUT the night is not.  Although this mornings' 1st nap she slept 45 mintues and I have had to go back in the get her back to sleep with the pacifier and patting but she     keeps waking up, is not settling down to finish her nap.  Within the past week and a half she has had 2 nights of really good sleep, only getting up 2 times and needing to feed.  Our bedtime routine consists of bath, jammies, feed (breast or bottle, sometimes both) quiet time with Mom and Dad, then up to bed around 7:30 or 8.  With having 3 older children sometimes the bedtime routine will get off track, especially is DH is working late.  I do not do a DF because I feel that if she needs to eat at night she will wake up for it PLUS I am normally in bed myself around 9:30 pr 10.  I am also not sure how to do a DF, do you get baby out of bed and feed?  Burp?  How much to feed them?  Anyway,  this past week she has woken up at 10:30 or 11:30 (last night DD woke at 12:35 tried to give her the pacifier but she kept popping it out and wanting in back in, would not settle with it, I even tried shush pat wit it.  Ended up feeding her at 1:30 on one side, she needed the pacifier and slept until 5, needed to eat one side{this was a good night}).  Would not settle with shush pat or pacifier and would feed her.  From them on she has typically woken up every 2 maybe 3 hours.  Sometimes taking the pacifier and falling back to sleep other times needing to eat.  I will feed her as a last resort unless I know for sure she is hungry.  She will wake up around 7 or 7:30.  this morning I let her sleep until 8 and I had to wake her up... figured it was ok since she went down for the night at 9 last night.
I have 2 thoughts with the frequent NWs:  1.  she is not eating enough during the day  2.  she is using the pacifier as a prop at night and sometimes during the day.  Although I am not sure that the pacifier is a prop right now because she does not always need it to fall asleep, at least during the day and sometimes at night.
Concerning her eating:  she is a very quick nurser!  She will nurse for 5 to 7 minutes of each side, if I am lucky.  Sometimes it is shorter and other times longer.  She does not like to nurse if her hunger is satisfied ...  when this happens she seems to want to make up those calories at night.  She will even sometimes refuse to nurse for the evening feed.  That is when she will get a bottle.  Yesterday, I pumped 1/2 hour before she was to BF.  BF her when it was time to feed and then feed her what I pumped from the bottle...so she ate the 3.5 to 5 oz that I pumped plus whatever she was got when she BF.  Thought this might help increase my milk supply if it was low and she was not getting enough during the day and also to see how much she was actually eating.  I do this again today.
She is not having any developmental milestones.  She does not get any cereal or solid food, to young yet.  A time is typically 45 minutes or longer, it depends on how long she takes to eat.  She has interactive time with me or dad or a sibling, independent play on the floor, on the toy mat, or her bouncy seat.  I also am only giving her the pacifier for naps, night time, and in the car when needed for comfort or sleep.
Hope  i have included enough helpful information, I tried to be thorough.  Any help and suggestions are welcomed!

Thank you and God Bless.

Sarah, Mom of 4

[~ Vik ~]

Hi Sarah

Hopefully I can help with some of your questions!

Can a BF baby actually prefer and do better on a bottle?

Prefer, absolutely...  It is much easier to get milk out of a bottle - even with the slow-flow nipples, milk just drips into their mouths.  With bfing, they have to work harder to get it out.  This can lead some babies to have a definite bottle preference.  Do better, I'm not really sure.  It's possible, especially with some medical conditions (eg tongue tie, cleft palate, etc) that can cause poor latch, for babies to not be able to suck efficiently at the breast.  If your concerned about something like this, you may want to see a lactation consultant or talk to your doctor to ensure that your dd is latched well and nursing efficiently.  However, if you've made it to 3.5mo and she's growing well, plenty of wet and poopy diapers, etc. then everything is likely ok in that arena.  Not sure about the spit up though...  If her latch is poor, that might cause her to swallow more air, leading to more burping/spitting up.  What do you think?

I am also not sure how to do a DF, do you get baby out of bed and feed?  Burp?  How much to feed them?

Have you read http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65750.0 ?  You do have to lift them out of bed, but the goal is to do it very, very gently and (hopefully!) not wake them. They are usually so relaxed that they don't swallow a lot of air so you don't burp, just put back to bed.

she is a very quick nurser!  She will nurse for 5 to 7 minutes of each side, if I am lucky.  Sometimes it is shorter and other times longer.

This is actually very normal!  Babies become more efficient as they get older, and often feed for much shorter times.  There's more detailed information here: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65904.0
Having said that, I wonder if your dd gets frustrated after the initial let down when milk flow slows, and that's why she pops off so quickly.  Have you tried http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=88759.0 ?  That will help the milk flow, and may help her stay interested and feed a bit longer.  Milk supply is also usually lowest in the evenings, which may also be why she is fussier feeding from the breast then too.  You may find that breast compressions help here also.


It is very normal to have to do 2, or even 3 night feeds at your lo's age.  My ds had a dreamfeed, plus at least one night feed, sometimes a second in the wee hours of the morning.  Have you seen http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=98183.0 ?  Growth spurts can also cause increased night wakings for feeds - it's nature's way of increasing your milk supply to meet your lo's increasing needs.  Check out http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=66001.0
I think your other nightwakings may be due to the pacifier being a prop for her, though, based on the behaviour you've described.  I'm not the best to advise you there, as my ds never took to one (though believe me, I tried!) so you may want to check out the FAQs on the props board.

As for increasing your milk supply, extra pumping sessions are definitely one way to do it, although I usually advise moms to pump one hour after feeding sessions.  You will likely only get an oz or maybe 2, but you can then use that to top up your lo at the next feed.  There's more details on that, and other ideas to increase your supply, here:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65905.0

HTH   And let us know how things are going!
Vikki

[Sarah, Mom of 4]

Thank you for all of the advise Vikki!

She has actually been doing a lot better the past two nights.  Only two wakings to eat.  Although I have noticed that if I bf her on both sides during one waking she has a terrible time settling back down, it will take on hour or even 2 to get her back to sleep soundly.  She acts like she has gas, scrunching her body up when she is in her crib.  I will get her back up and burp her and then put back in her crib...then she will scrunch up again.  Do you think she may be overeating for the nighttime feed? 
I have tried the breast compression and it has worked a couple of times and other times she still fusses.  So, perhaps she is fuller than I think.  And she has always nursed very quickly, so perhaps this is normal for her. 
Her previous night wakings I am pretty sure were do to my accidental parenting.  And now that I have stopped doing it, I think it is getting better.  It is just taking longer than i had hoped.  But, now she is coming down with the flu that everyone else in the house has had this past week, except me.  Praying that I do not get it and that she will recover from it quickly and not get her sleeping and routine all messed up.  But, will deal with that when the time comes.  She has actually been doing very well for being sick.
She has been doing better with the binkie too.  She does not use it as much and sometimes when I try to give it to her because she will not settle, say at night during those 1 or 2 hour stretches she does not always want it.

thank you

Sarah

[A pair of Charlies]

Vikki's given great advice so nothing to add!

Given your LO's age, thought this might be worth taking a look at before you hit the big 4m growth spurt - just in case it kicks off more NWs!! http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=66001.0

HTH

Charlotte

[~ Vik ~]

Hi Sarah,

Sounds like your nights have started to get better, that's great!   And fantastic that she's not as dependent on her binkie.  It's a nice tool to have when you need it to help settle, but it can become such a problem too!

Do you think she may be overeating for the nighttime feed?

That's possible.  Sometimes when ds would doze off while feeding through the night he would stay latched on and keep sucking until I took him off!  If your dd is very relaxed (and warm and cozy nestled up to mommy ) she might just keep sucking for comfort even though she's no longer hungry.  If you think gas may be a problem, have you ever tried ovol or infacol?  I gave them to ds frequently as he would get awful gas pains through the night, and it does seem to help them pass that wind.

~~~healthy vibes~~~ to you and your family!  I hope that dd gets over the flu quickly and things can get back to normal for you

Vikki