Total bedtime refusal no matter what I try - 2-1 transition, please help!

[shresmummy]

Hi, DD is 14 months old and she definitely seems to be showing signs of transitioning from 2 to 1 nap. She's not really refusing her naps which I know is a common sign of the transition but bedtime is a total disaster no matter what routine or A times I try. This has been going on for about a month now and I am totally at a loss as to what to try next. I don't think she's OT at bedtime though, but I can't say for sure. I don't think she's UT also. Most times I have been needing to AP at bedtime to stop her from getting OT by the end.

Could someone please take a look at the various routines that have emerged this week, and help me tweak them? There were 2 days with a short AM nap and a long PM nap which happened on one of DD's childcare days, when she fell asleep at bedtime without too much fussing but then again we had some NWs.

Wake - 7
Am nap - 10:45 - 11:20 (at childcare)
PM nap - 2:30 - 4
Bedtime - 8 (no fussing at bedtime)
NWs - 10:45, 12, 12:50, 3  - teething?)

Wake - 7:15
AM nap - 11:10 - 12:35 (woke on own happy)
PM nap - 3:45 - 4:20 (I woke her up)
Bedtime - 8:10 (Tried since 7:30, thought after short PM nap she would need only about 3hr A time??)
NWs - 9:15, 12, 4 and was up tossing till 5:30 then slept till 7:20

Wake - 7:20
AM nap - 11 - 12:10 (woke on own happy)
PM nap - 3:35 - 4:20 (I woke her)
Bedtime - 8:25 (tried since
NWs - 9:30, then slept till 6:30 AM

Wake - 6:30
AM nap - 10:50 - 12:40 (I had to wake her)
PM nap - 3:45 - 4:15 (I woke her)
Bedtime - 8:25 (Tried since
Nws - woke up at 6 crying, then resettled and slept till 7:30

Wake - 7:30
AM nap - 11:15 - 12:20 (woke on own happy)
PM nap - 3:20 - 4:20 (had to AP for the nap cos we were going out but also had to wake her up from it  )
Bedtime  - 8:30 (tried since 8 because was very fussy and cranky)
Nws - 11:30 not sure how the night's going to go!

Is there something obvious that I"m failing to see? I know her PM nap is sometimes finishing a bit late but because it's a short one that shouldn't matter too much isn't it? On the days that it's 30 mins I try for a bedtime after roughly 3 - 3.25 hr A time but still by the time she goes to sleep it's almost 4 hrs A time!! And at this point I don't know whether she's OT, UT or something else

I would really appreciate some advice on how to tackle this. Thanks heaps!

[Julianne1984]

Have you tried an A time of less than 3hrs after a 30min nap? That was something for us that only came to light recently, and I have to say, since doing that things have been easier at bedtime! I aim for 2.75-3 hours A after a 30min nap. Maybe a bedtime 30 mins earlier also? Or is she used to 8pm? Also, when do you start bedtime routine? We used to have a nightmare until we extended it all over an hour instead of 20mins. I'm no expert by any means but thought i'd offer some hugs atleast. Xx

[shresmummy]

Hey Julianna, I have tried 2.5hr, 3 hr, 3.5, 4, and even 4.5!! Yeah, we also do the bedtime routine over a long time, starting from the bath, then dressing up, brushing teeth, books, cuddles etc. It all seemed to be working really well and she would fall asleep literally within 2 mins it was so good and hassle free. But those days seem bygone now

Today she had a short Am nap, I put her down for the PM nap just around 3hrs, but as always she happily went down for the nap. It's tonight's bedtime I have to wait and wonder about Oh and last night we had NWs every 3 hours. I am so over this!!

[Julianne1984]

Oh no! We went through the samething around 13-15months, we just rode it out I can't really help. *hug*

[shresmummy]

Just wanted to update on how our past few days have been progressing. what I have started finding is that no matter what length of nap DD has had, whether it be 1hr, 45 mins, or 35 mins she doesn't go down for bedtime before 4hr A time. I have her in there by the time its either 3 or 3.5 hr if it's a short nap but it's a no go. She fusses fidgets and I have to AP her to sleep and when she finally calms down enough to decide she wants to sleep it's been 4 hr since she woke up!

Do babies reach a stage when they can handle about 4hr regardless of how long their nap was?

[Shiv52]

I found at that age my LO could handle much more A time on less sleep.  At 13 months, we'd been going through alot of what you are and it was a nightmare.  A build up of short naps was leading to OT but bedtimes still a nightmare if there wasn't enough A time and on it went. 

In the end we just moved to one nap.  After a week we were well settled into it and i think one evening I did a catnap as she seemed very tired.  The nap was 1.5 hours for the first few weeks but once she got in to the swing of it, by 14.5 months we had started consistently having 2.5-3 hour naps and its much easier than trying to be guessing A times and dealing with two naps. 

Only an idea but you are probably heading in that direction!

[shresmummy]

Hi Shiv52, thanks for that. what strategy did you use to move to 1 nap? Did you cut the AM nap short and move up the PM nap or did you do it the other way?

And on those days when she did 1.5hr on a 1 day nap did you put her to bed early? Today I ended up doing a 1 day nap because she just wasn't ready to sleep at her normal nap time.

Wake - 6:30 Am
Nap - 11:30 - 2:50 (although she woke briefly at 12:50 and 1:50 and I had to pat her back to sleep)
Bedtime - 7:30.

Tomorrow should I go back to my 2 nap day?
Thanks again for you help

[shresmummy]

So we had another 1 nap day today, which turned out to be pretty good.

Also, last night DD slept reasonably well, except for a brief wake at 6 Am.

last night - 7:30 PM - 6 Am, wake then back to sleep until I woke her at 7:15 this morning
Nap - 11:55 - 2:50
Bedtime - 7:50 (I tried since about 7:30 because she looked tired but she took a while to settle. Was she maybe not tired enough until 5hr A time??)

I'm getting really scared that we're done 2 days in a row on one nap. So far she's had ok nights. But I'm really worried about OT setting in.

Should I throw in a 2 nap day tomorrow or just continue the way the routine has been the past 2 days?

What are the signs I should be watching for when OT sets in?

[Shiv52]

Hey hun

When I did it I just made the switch.  Just moved to 1 nap and hoped for the best.  I think about day 4 she seemed to be tireder than usual and her pm nap was only over an hour so i did a short catnap later on that afternoon to get her through to bedtime.   I think I did that twice in the first couple of weeks but apart from that just went for it.

That was a great nap she had yesterday.  I know alot of people alternate two nap days with one nap days so you could try it tomorrow if you wanted to see how she goes or just go for the one nap and see how she fairs.  She might surprise you.  Think OT would be a very short nap in which case you could throw in a second nap/catnap later on or do earlier bedtime depending on what normally works for your LO. 

How'd she sleep last night? 

Do earlier bedtimes work for her or does she just still wake her usual 12 hours later?  You could just continue

[shresmummy]

Last night went reasonably well again. She slept from 7:50ish to 6:30 this morning without waking and when she woke she was really happy. But I'm worried that's only a 10.5hr night. Is that Ok because she had had almost 3hr daytime sleep yesterday?

Anyway I think because she woke a bit early today I decided to go for a 2 nap day. I don't think she would have lasted till after lunch. I put her down around 10:30 for a nap. I'm not sure how long to allow her to sleep for.

Any suggestions?

[Shiv52]

How did the day go?  Only seeing this now.  Just realising we;re in very different time zones! 

If you decided to go for a 2 nap day I'd have done a short am nap 30-45 minutes and then let her sleep her usual in the pm but wake in time to keep bedtime at usual time.  I think the night will shift and become longer as your day gets better although you could try an earlier bedtime and see does that make a difference?  although the day she woke at 6am she did nearly a 14 hour day.  We always do 11 hour night-13 hour day and it works well.  It'll settle though once you get consistently to one nap. 

[sherry lynn]

Hey Priya - still on the mend here but finally remembered to pop in.

Shiv gave the exact advice I was going to give just by reading the title of your Thread

I think it's time.

I hope she does well on the two naps for you.

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, so yesterday we did the 2 naps and yes I did end up doing the short AM longer PM, and our day looked like this:

Wake - 6:30 AM happy (after bedtime at 7:55, no NWs!)
AM nap - 10:40 - 11:20ish (she woke on her own)
PM nap - 2:35 - 3:55
Bedtime - 8:10ish (but we had 1 NW at 4:30 AM then back to sleep until 7:30)

Today was not so good Because she woke at 7:30 I decided to try 1 nap and here was our routine:

Wake - 7:30
Nap - 12ish - 1:40 (woke on her own)
I wasn't sure what to do for the rest of the day here.

I tried to AP for a PM catnap around 4:30ish but she didn't want it, she cried and fussed and then gave in and fell asleep around 4:50. I let her sleep for about 20 mins and woke her around 5:15ish

Sherry you've mentioned before that after a 20 min nap usually LOs can handle A times of about 2hrs , so I tried bedtime around 7:15ish. She did rub her eyes but was up till 8:10 when she finally fell asleep!!

She was chatting, kept throwing her bunny out of the cot and asking me to come get it for her!! in the end I just sat in the room and she finally fell asleep at 8:10. I left and then I heard her up and chatting in about 20 mins again! But she went back to sleep in a few mins.

So do you think that was UT or OT at bedtime? Perhaps I shouldn't have forced her to do the catnap today and just tried early bedtime?

If say she has another day like today when would you suggest bedtime? DD normally doesn't like an earlybedtime before at least 7ish. But would that be early enough? Or should I still try for the catnap?

So Sherry, you think it might be time to just bite the bullet and go to 1 nap consistently? You know DD's history from a few months back.

If so should I just pick an A time of say around 4hr 45min? A few days ago when she woke at 7:15 and I put her down around 11:55 she had a great nap and didn't wake till 2:50! Should I just use that as a base?

Sorry for such a long post and so many questions!!!

[Shiv52]

I think UT at bedtime.  At this age a 20 minute nap would revive my wee one for much longer than 2 hours!  A catnap at that time for us would have meant a much later bedtime so I tend to just make it through to bedtime or slightly earlier bedtime! 

I'd say bite the bullet and go to one nap.  Pick an A time that works (so 4.45 if thats working) and go from there.  We have our nap at the same time every day regardless of when she got up.  Took a couple of weeks to settle in to but well worth it in the end.  You may find that she'll up her A time a bit once she's settled.

Our routine now and has been for months is:

8am Awake
8.30am  Breakfast
12pm Lunch
1pm Nap
3.30/4pm Awake
8.30pm Bed

HTH!   

[sherry lynn]

Yep, I think it's time

When the LO start being like that after a 20 min nap I think that's when it's just time to go for it.

I agree with everything Shiv52 said Do 4h45m until you think she needs more A time.

Honestly I don't think bedtime would have had to be that much earlier today. If she can handle 4 hours on a short pm nap then I would guess that she could go 4.5-5 hours on a good nap WDYT

I'm glad you only had one night waking though