Total bedtime refusal no matter what I try - 2-1 transition, please help!

[shresmummy]

Hi Sherry, Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. We had internet troubles over the weekend.

So the weekend went well with my new theory, I tried to end the PM nap around 3:50ish and she got to bed reasonably. Although the past 2 days have confused me a bit. Can you shed some light on it??

Monday
Wake - 7:45AM
AM nap - 10:45 - 11:30 (at childcare)
PM nap - 2:30 - 3:50 (at home, I woke her up)
Bedtime - 7:50 no fussing
NWs - brief wake around 4AM, I think she's teething again

Tuesday
Wake -7 AM
Am nap - 10:30 - 11:20 (at childcare)
Pm nap - 2:35 - 3:50 (she took a bit longer to fall asleep today. Could 5 extra mins of AM nap make a difference??)
Bedtime - tried 7:45 again, but took till 8:25!!!

I"m not sure why such a difference between the 2 days.

Would love to know what your thoughts are.

Oh and I still haven't got around to my new ticker  I should update it

[sherry lynn]

This isn't really true with all kids, but here, 5 minutes can make all the difference.
Not only did she fall asleep five minutes later at nap, but you tried bedtime 5 minutes earlier.
I'm sure you did that because the PM nap was a tad bit shorter, but since it ended at the same time she might not have just been quite ready.

I'm sort of surprised that you don't want to cut the morning nap to get a longer PM nap?

What is her mood like in the late afternoon?

[shresmummy]

I do definitely want to cut the AM naps. When she's at home I do for sure and make sure it's no longer than 40 mins. I did speak to the childcare about cutting the naps but they probably don't realise that 5 mins here or there can make a big difference. They were probably busy with another kid and by the time they got to her she had woken up herself after 50 mins so they must have figured that was fine!! Sigh!

Her mood is normally ok at most of the A times. YEsterday though she was a bit clingy all day, and had bad nappy rash so I thought she might have been teething. But it's so hard to tell for sure.

Although she got to bed at 8:25 last night she had an OK night with just 1 brief NW. She woke up around 3:30ish and I had to give her some water and she went back to sleep. She slept till 7:30AM this morning.

I have put her down for the AM nap around 10:55 and will allow to sleep only until about 11:30.
HOping for the best!

[shresmummy]

So I dont' think I judged today very well The PM nap as well as bedtime took aaaages!

This was our routine today:

Wake - 7:30
AM nap - 11 - 11:30 (i woke her, she fell asleep within 5 mins)
PM nap - 2:45 - 3:50 (I woke her. I tried to put her down since about 2:25 because I thought that I should have a shorter A time after a 30 min nap??)

Bedtime - 8 (she was rubbing her eyes around 7:20 and I thought since she had only shortish PM nap I should try for a 12 hr day and put her down around 7:30. She initially seemed very quiet but then started tossing and turning and wouldn't sleep until almost 8!!.

Boy did I make a mess of today! I am thinking the culprit may have been that the AM nap was too late in the day, even though it was only 30 mins. Perhaps I should have done 10:45 and stopped it at 11:15??

I think I"M getting to a stage where it's getting very tricky to juggle 2 naps. Perhaps in a couple of weeks I should try 1 nap again? What do you think?

[sherry lynn]

I don't think you messed anything up.
I think you did the best, with what you had.

I agree, it does seem like it is getting tricky to fit everything in.

You could def. try the one nap again. Or you could also try a 20 min morning nap if the one nap doesn't work.

The 20 min nap usually works well when you have trouble fitting everything in because the A time is typically about 2 hours.
Although, given her age it might be a tad bit more.

You were correct in that 3 hours is the typical A time after a 30 min nap, but then again - she is a little older now then a lot of LO going through the transition, so that might factor into the A time.

I think she is getting close. Pretty exciting

I hope she has a good night for you tonight. That was a pretty low nap day.

[shresmummy]

So I’m not sure what to make of the past 2 days. I tried the 20 min nap yesterday actually, but the problem was she still didn’t take her PM nap until the usual time of around 2:30ish!! I thought she was OT but she had a good PM nap and then bedtime ended up being almost 4.5 hr after she woke from the PM nap, eventhough I tried bedtime since about 4hr later.. But we had a very bad night , she was up at least 3 times and then around 3:45 she was up and wouldn’t fall back asleep for almost 30 mins!! Kept tossing around and thrashing about, not really crying.

 Anyway today I tried 30 mins for the AM nap. She fell asleep really well for both naps today, unlike yesterday but then bedtime again took nearly 40 mins!! I am so over this. Here are our routines from the past 2 days. Is there any way I can bring that PM nap earlier in the day without going straight to 1 nap? Perhaps give the 20 min Am nap another go but try putting her down much earlier for the PM nap and hope again that she does sleep earlier?

Yesterday
_________
Wake – 7:30
AM nap – 11:15 – 11:35 I woke her
PM nap – 2:30 – 4. Fussed and wouldnt sleep any earlier. But she woke on her own at 4, happy
Bedtime – tried since about 8 but fell asleep finally only after 8:30
NWs – can’t remember but at least 3.

Today
______
Wake  - 7 AM
AM nap – 10:45 – 11:15 fell asleep quickly. I woke her
PM nap – 2:25 – 3:45 (fell asleep quickly and woke happy on her own)
Bedtime – tried since 7:45, initially fell asleep around 8 but then woke again in 2 mins and then took till 8:30 to fall asleep. I had to AP to sleep.

What do I do next

[sherry lynn]

At what amount of A time did you start trying to put her down for the 20 min nap?

I would guess she was OT if the 30 min nap worked better.

If the 20 min nap gives you that much A time, then no, I think you are going to have to bite the bullet and go for one nap.

Maybe alternate days between 2-1 nap for a little while.

[shresmummy]

Well that Am nap ended around 11:35. I wanted to put her down around 1:45 but someone showed up at the door and tried to get me to do our roof up again!! IT took me around 5 mins to get rid of him so I'd say by the time we got to the bedroom it was around 1:55 , perhaps even 2?

Was that too late? Maybe she took long because she was OT? I dont' know. She did sleep well though so I doubt she was way OT right?

I can't say for sure whether naps today were better because o the 30 min Am nap or because she was just generally tired because of a bad night last night.

[sherry lynn]

That's a good point about the night. I hadn't thought of that.

So after what A time did you try the 30 min nap?

Sorry things are getting so frustrating again. I think you are really really close to one nap though.

[shresmummy]

So last night she finally went to bed around 8:25 and she STTN till 6:15 morning! She woke up after about 10hr of sleep. Initially she was tossing and turning but then she was happy and ready to start the day. Now I know that seems like an OT night of 10hrs but I don't think she was unhappy when she woke up.

She showed tired signs this morning around 10:20 so I put her down for the AM nap at 10:30. I'm going to let her sleep till 11:10 then wake her up, I hope I am doing the right thing by trying that!! I never know.

THen i'll put her down for the PM nap around 2:15 and hope for the best, let her sleep till 3:45 and then try bedtime again at 7:45 but I'm not so optimisitic about bedtime again.

[JaspersMum]

Priya our routines are starting to look very similar!  Especially the morning and afternoon nap start times.  Isn't interesting how our routines are almost the same but our A times are different.  Your DD's seem to be on the shorter side before and after am nap but then really long before bed, and for my DS the longest A time is before the am nap and the shortest can be before bed!

I think I might go to a 20 m am nap in a week or so.  Deckchariot and Becky1969 think I can be on one nap in about a month.

[sherry lynn]

YEY for a STTN

Sounds like both of you are really close to one nap

[shresmummy]

So that STTN was shortlived, as expected!!! 

We didn't have a very good weekend. DD has been acting all strange and I just can't seem to read her anymore.

what do you make of our weekend routines?

Sunday
went to bed on sat night at 7:50, Had brief NW at 5:20 then slept till 7:30AM
Wake - 7:30AM

nap - 11:30 - 1:15 (she woke on her own happy. I tried to offer her a catnap around 4ish but she refused)

Bedtime - 6:30 (I tried at the earliest she was willing to go down)
NWs - 8:30 brief wake crying  - was this due to OT? Strange to wake up 2hrs after bedtime. THen another brief wake at 3 and then woke at 7AM happy

Monday
Wake - 7AM

refused Am nap at childcare

Nap - 12:50 - 1:10 (the earliest I could bring her home and get her down was 12:45). I tried my best to AP her back to sleep but she kept crying and refused to nap any longer.

Bedtime - 6:30 as yestrday
Nws - again 8:30 then briefly cried out at 9:20.

What's happening!! How do I fix this I really hope she naps at childcare tomorrow AM, even for a brief nap. I can't figure out whether she's OT or not. She's happy when she's awake, but whenever I try to see if she needs a catnap she starts screaming her head off so I give up.

[JaspersMum]

Bad weekends all round!

Great that you tried out the one nap!  Do you think maybe you could have pushed her on Sunday to perhaps 12pm?  She's done 4.5 hours A time before hasn't she?  That may have prevented the NWs but I'm not sure.  I think when these LOs wake at odd times its teeth!

I think you couldn't do much today with the am nap refusal.  You did your best to get her down as soon as you could but she probably was OT to produce the short nap.

I must admit, even though we are teething over here and have some disruptions to the routine (due to social events!) the 30 minute am nap is working well for us.

[sherry lynn]

Hi Priya - sorry you had such a rough weekend.
My guess would be she was UT the first day and OT the second day. But like Rachel said there's nothing more you could have done about it
It looks like you are full on into the switch now with getting nap refusals and what-not.

I'm not surprised she refused the catnap on that first day. That was only 2h45m of A time after a 45min nap. But, I know you were worried about it getting too late in the day.

You did the best you could.

It might be a bumpy next couple of weeks, but then I imagine you will be on one nap