Total bedtime refusal no matter what I try - 2-1 transition, please help!

[sherry lynn]

Curious to see how the night goes.

Are you giving pain meds since her gums are swollen?

4.75 for 2 more days sounds good.

I think bedtime shows that she is ready for more A time, therefore on nap

[shresmummy]

Last night was not too bad, relatively speaking!! She woke up twice. First time around 10:20 and she seemed really distressed, almost as if she had a nightmare. I have noticed this recently actually. And there is another thread that talks about this. called night terrors I think? But I don't know for sure.

Then again around 3:45, but this was quick. She wanted some water. But the thing is she woke up for the day around 6:10!!

I wasn't sure what to do today becuase I knew for sure I couldn't get her to bed by 6PM tonight because we have to got to MILs for lunch and we often get back home only after 6:30 because they live far away.

I tried a 20/25min AM nap today from 10 - 10:25 and then planning to put her down again around 12:45 or 1 PM. We'll see how it goes.

DO you think she woke up at 6AM today because she was well rested or is she showing signs of OT? She woke up happy barking like a doggy! I guess she did have nearly 11.5 hr night right?

[JaspersMum]

May well be a nightmare or a night terror.  I read that other thread too and they are common around 15 months.

I think a 11.5 hour night is fantastic!  I don't ever, ever expect more than that from DS.  I think she definitely woke well rested but remember some OT is likely to creep in while she gets used to the new routine.  Just stick to what you are doing.  If you manage to get a later wake up tomorrow go back to 1 nap.

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, hope you had a good weekend.

We are still a bit inconsistent at the moment, while I try to work out the best way to move forward.

This weekend unfotunately, on both days she woke up at 6AM I thought the only way to get through the day was to do 2 naps (first at 10 - 10:25ish) then 1:15 - 2:45, then on saturday bedtime was 8. Saturday this worked well, but not on sunday. She flat out cried and cried at 10AM and finally only fell asleep at 10:30 - 11:10 (i let her sleep a bit because we were at MILs). Then PM nap was 2:30 - 3:45 she woke on her own and bedtime was 8:20.

Basically I think she's at a stage now where even if she wakes early if she has 2 naps, despite one being very short she will have almost a 14 hr day. Which robs nighttime sleep right?

Luckily she woke up at 6:45 this AM so I was all set for a 1 nap day. But by the time we got home from work/ childcare and I manged to get her to nap it was 12:30   She refused lunch there today so that added 30 mins when we got home

Anyway she slept from 12:35 - 1:20 and woke up crying. She obviously was OT. I went to comfort her and she fell back asleep so I let her sleep till 3 and woke her up.

I thought that on 1nap days I should do 12hr days so I tried bedtime at 6:50 but I think she didn't have enough A time again. She finally slept only around 7:30ish.

HOw should I get around childcare days on 1 nap? She is no longer having an AM nap there and I don't think they bother anyway. But by the time we get home it's at the earliest 12:30/12:45 before I can get her down for a nap. How long should I let her sleep for? The A times are a bit unbalanced on these days because it's almost 6hr before nap and then she obviously needs at least 5hr after nap. But then it will no longer be a 12hr day.

Hoping for the best tonight and keeping my fingers crossed!!

[JaspersMum]

Gosh Priya, its exhausting isn't it.  You really wonder when things will get easier and predictable.

I wonder, how much sleep is she getting in a 24 hour period?  On those days she woke at 6am, what time did she go to sleep the night before?

So you've worked out that she needs at least 5 hours before bed.  And what time do you want bedtime?  At 7.30 or 7pm?  I'd be aiming for this:

Wake up - 7am
Nap - 12 - 2
7pm bed

On childcare days perhaps just do a later bedtime, so if she sleeps 12.45 - 2.45 then do bed at 7.15 to make up for the OT she probably has due to nap starting late.

All ideas . . .

[shresmummy]

Well, on friday she had a 1nap day of 1hr 45mins and went to bed at 6:30, then woke up at 6 AM on saturday.

Then on saturday night she went to bed at 8PM, after having 2 naps (10 - 10:30, then 1:15-2:45)

Finally on sunday night she went to bed around 8:20PM, after once again having 2 naps (10:30 - 11:10, then 2:30 - 3:45)

Monday morning she woke up at 6:45.

I am still not 100% sure she needs 5hr A time before bed, but it's starting to look that way. what do you think just looking at her routines for the past few days?

[sherry lynn]

Since she had almost 6 hours of A time before the nap today I think just 15 min more like Rachel said (7:15) might have done the trick to be asleep at 7:30. I think a 12.5 hour day is fine, then hopefully she will sleep 11.5 at night. Which is around her norm, correct?

[shresmummy]

Success!!! Today was a great day, now if only tomorrow would be the same

wake up - 6:45
nap - 12:40 - 2:50 (when I woke her up! No wakings in between! YAY!!)
bedtime - 7:20 - she fell asleep in just a few mins, no fussing.

Last night, she had 1 NW, but it was a big one, where-in she was up from about 2:30 - nearly 3ish talking away, banging on the cot and in the end needed me to come in to get her calm. Wonder if that was because of OT although it suspiciously looks like UT right? But how can that possibly be?

So we don't have childcare until 11th of January, because I"m on leave now. That brings up the question I guess of what to try tomorrow. Today she did soo well with nearly 6hr A time but that's pushing it right? Tomorrow I think I should definitely try 5hr before the nap. But what do you think about anymore? I'm afraid to!! Today was nice in that she had nearly 6hr before the nap and then4.5hr before bedtime.

[JaspersMum]

Excellent day!

Not sure about that NW . . I would suspect OT as you are on a new routine so she would need time to adjust.

I would try and avoid a 6 hr A time before the nap just to avoid OT . . now that you are on holidays I'd stick with around 5 hours either side of the nap.

[sherry lynn]

I agree. Start at 5 hours and then see how it goes. Use this time to figure out the perfect combo of A times between in the am and pm.

So glad to hear you get some time off.

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, just wanted to say hello again after a few weeks.

We have seemed to have made good progress into 1 nap land!! for the last week or so she has consistently had 1 nap, after about 5 hr A time on either side of the nap. She sometimes naps 2 hr or 2hr 20 mins.

The nights are going mostly ok too, except a few brief wakes here and there. But the best thing is the time she takes to fall asleep has dropped to just under 5 or 10 mins!! yay!
and so far the EWs are manageable.

Sometimes she does this weird wake up during the nap exactly 1hr 40/45 mins after falling asleep. Does that mean anything? is it OT or UT or just a transition point? She's never really unhappy but sometimes just wants cuddles. Just curious what your thoughts are.

Unfortunately we've got a couple of busy days ahead so I might have to do 2 naps to fit it all in. hoping for the best!!

Wishing you all very happy New year and look forward to chatting to you all again in the NY.

[JaspersMum]

Hello Priya . . lovely to hear from you!  I hope you are well 

We are in one nap land too but I think we are struggling with OT/teeth/and a cold at the mo.  A times are a bit all over the place and bedtime is a nightmare but I think its because of pain/congestion and UT actually!  Seem to have more A time before the nap than after.

My guess is that 1hr 40m naps are UT!  DS wakes from these very happy so that is my guess . . whereas his 1hr 20m naps are OT as wakes with a cry and will sometimes go back to sleep.

Happy New Year to you too!

[sherry lynn]

We've had 1h40m/1h50m mean both UT and OT, so no help here  
Thanks for giving us an update. I've been hoping things are going well. I hope she copes well with your busy days. Good luck

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, hope you're doing well.

Well, we managed the busy few days well and she coped really well. What I have found is that now even if she has a busy couple of days and I try to offer say a 2 nap day the next day it ends up messing up the nights.

I wonder if she's got to a stage where she's able to recover quite quickly (say in 1 night??) after a busy OS day?

But lately we've been having a few odd NWs, almost every 3 hr. I suspect it's teeth or I wonder if we need a slight routine tweak. I don't know yet, I guess I'll just watch for a few days and see.

Just wondering, on average, how much daytime sleep do you think DD would need on 1 nap days? Right now I"m doing 5hr A time on either side, then about 2hr-2hr20 mins nap. is that enough or too little?

I also wonder when the next A time jump from 5hr will be. Any idea?

[sherry lynn]

Hmmmm....

The jump to past 5 hours varies A LOT. Some LO stay there for a long, long time. Some stay there for almost their whole time on one nap. I think she will let you know by taking longer to go down for her naps and for bedtime. Oh, and if the nap length starts to drop then some moms push out the long A time.

I think that is enough sleep. She might start to stretch it out a tad. I think you could try upping the A time just a little if you wanted.

Keep an eye on those wakings. I'm thinking it might be worth a shot to drop the A time by 15-30 min to see if it helps. I wonder if she is going to bed a tad OT. A lot of LO do better with A time less than 5 hours for the last one.