Are 1 hour 15 minute naps OT or UT?

[magdalenapl]

Hi Christine
I know exactly this feeling you mentioned - I felt so guilty my LO did no sleep properly last days. THB I still need to figure it out, since she takes 2 times 1,15 nap usually, but it can be that first nap is UT and second OT. That was yesterday I am sure.
Anyway I think it is not possible to keep the same A time every day, it needs to be adjusted daily based on LO observation. It is more or less the same but not exactly and really sometimes 5 minutes can make a difference.
Hugs to you and your LO. She is so sweet

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

I am starting to wonder if his issue is hunger.  Although he eat 3 solid meals a day and is EBF I am starting to wonder if he needs more.  Not sure though.  After his 1hr 10min nap yesterday (only nap of the day!) he had a pretty big lunch and then lasted 6hrs before he asked for BM again....sometimes he seems to want it every 2-3hrs and the odd time (rare) he can go 4.5-5hrs.  He woke up last night after about 1.5hrs (OT) and I was able to put a hand on his back and shh...then he woke up at 10:30pm and wouldn't go back to sleep until I finally fed him at 11:30pm.  I was so mad at myself for feeding him since we have been able to get to 3 or 4am lately without a feed but he was definitely hungry last night.  He then woke up at 4am and was starving again (took both sides too).  Back to sleep.  Awake for the day at around 6am and starving!  I try to make him go 4hrs between BF but sometimes he just gets too upset.  I am starting to think of adding in some formula, not that I really want to but I am also wasting away to nothing and have lost too much weight.

So glad we have this forum to bounce ideas off of each other!

[Tao]

Hi Mommy to a Monkey,

Maybe you can fit in an extra feed during his A time and see if that makes a difference? It could be that he needs more...especially depending on his weight. (He is darling by the way)

I think you mentioned your DS is 8 mos? Also, just want to commend you on EBF as it is sooo good for them! There have been several times that my family and friends have wanted me to formula feed our baby due to her extensive allergies (which means I have to cut wheat, milk, eggs, nuts out of my diet) but knowing the nutritional value of BM kept me going. Ultimately, you know what is best for your DS but just wanted to encourage you to keep BM because this is THE best thing you can give him =). When my supply went down a bit due to going back to work, I would pump an extra time at night (both sides) and it helped my supply to increase a bit, but then again, I am not losing a great deal of weight like you. Maybe talk to your doctor first, as your health is equally important...

Good luck.

Also, I was just wondering, when you mentioned that he only had one nap yesterday, after that nap and some more A time, did you try putting him down and he didn't want to go? What happens if you try to put him down? The reason why I am asking is because two weeks ago my DD would refuse to go down and after realizing that it was because I was trying to put her down when she wasn't even tired made a difference...Maybe looking at his behavior when you try to get him to nap, can help?

[annette.xx]

hello

right then about those naps...completely 100% know your bubs is OT...I know this cos it is the exact same thing my LO went through at 7 1/2 - 8 months!!

ok so here is what I did when it all fell apart (from memory so hope its right!!)

first A time needs to be long enough as this will help to get rid of that EW for you - I will use an example of just A times needed - to get out of the OT loop you need to stick to the A times regardless of tired signs etc for a few days just to re set their body clock cos when OT their sleep times are all over meaning less sound sleep - body doesnt know whether it should be awake or asleep!!

wake

windown at 2 hrs 30 A time spend 20 mins walking around the house with him, slow dancing anything really calm

2 hrs 50 A time and put him to bed - this allows 10 mins settling time

allow nap of 1 and 1/2 hrs

if nap was 1 1/2 hrs next A will be 3 hrs, if it was 1 hr next A will be 2 1/2 hrs, 1 hr 15 nap A will be 2 hr 45 if it was 30 min then next A will be 2 hrs - do not exceed these times cos OT will come get you!!

then you do the exact same A times before bed depending on nap length again

so put into a routine if day started at 6am with perfect naps it would be;

wake 6
S - 9 - 10.30
S - 1.30 - 3
S - 6

If day goes wonky here is an example of how it could end up!!;

wake 6
S - 9 - 10
S - 12.30 - 1.30
S - 4 either use pushchair/car ride or any other AP that works and do catnap for 30 mins max or try and stretch to bedtime of no later than 5pm (3 1/2 hr total A time)

honestly I know it feels like going backwards but it really sorts you out if you just adapt however you can to avoid the OT monster...OT causes EW so will result in less sleep - for example if you put him to bed at 6pm still you would get 10.5 - 11 hrs max so wake time would be 5am - but by keeping the last A time less than 3 1/2 hrs for last one and doing bed at 5pm you will get 12 hrs maybe more sleep which will still mean 5 - 6am wake but then you have already caught up some of that OT meaning the naps will start to improve - getting you out of the OT loop quicker...

does that make sense?

tomorrow if you can - log on and let me know the wake time for the day and length of first nap and I will help you work through the day right through until the bedtime for that night....

hope this helps

Annette.xx

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

Ok that totally makes sense now Annette!  Today actually we have started off on the right foot....

Awake - 6am
S - 8:40am - 10:10am (1.5hrs - yay!)
S - just went down at 1:20pm - I hope I didn't push it too far....we'll have to wait and see I guess :-o

I did spend longer doing wind down with him this morning so I think that also made a difference.
I really hope this starts to work out soon.

Tao - yes he had WAY too much A time in the AM and then in the afternoon he was a complete bear and would NOT go to sleep!  I tried and tried for over an hr and nothing.  Needless to say he had a really crappy night sleep because of it...which I sort of expected.

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

Ok so...SUCCESS!!!!  I made sure we did another longer wind down for his PM nap and I got 1hr 25min!  YESSSSS!!  I literally jumping up and down right now.  Lets see if the night goes well and then we will try again tomorrow   I am going to go by clock AND cues because he did rub his eyes twice and then I whisked him off to do wind down upstairs...rocking in the chair and playing with a book quietly and then a little song and walk around his room and a little dance lol!

[Tao]

YIPPEEE! I am so happy for you! Isn't this an amazing feeling! I think it's working for my LO too as she had a great morning nap today and for both naps yesterday but looking at her cues as well. It's all about reading their signs!

I'm so happy...keep up the great work!

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

Thanks for the support ladies!  I hope we can repeat today....last night was OK.  He did wake up at 8:30pm and only fussed for 10min and went back to sleep but then woke up again at 9 and I had to intervene and help him with sh/pat/rubbing his bum and a couple PU/PD....he finally gave in at around 10:15pm.  I tried teething meds too but it didn't seem to the be reason he woke up.  I know it wasn't hunger either.  I am now wondering if maybe his nose woke him up.  He was a bit stuffy and he does snore quite a bit.  He knows how to self soothe though so not sure why he couldn't go back to sleep.  He slept until 3:30am...I actually woke up before him LOL!  I let him fuss for about 10min and then went into feed him.  I know at some point I have to stop this feed too but I want to get our naps and nighttime sleep figured out first.
He decided 5am was a good time to start this morning unfortunately - why would he have an EW after such a great nap day yesterday?  Should I have pushed his bedtime to 6:30 instead of 6 last night?
Now today.....I was able to hold him off feeding at 6am like normal but not sure what time to start our first nap wind down?  7:30am?!  That means his bedtime will be 5 or 5:30pm now?

[annette.xx]

Hi there

yeah I would defo start the first nap windown at 7.30 to be asleep by 8am that way hopefully you should keep the OT at bay ...remember we are still trying to get you out of the loop so there will still be a little OT even after good naps!..after a few good days it will be plain sailing again!!...

just try and make sure that the first A time is as close to 3 hrs as possible ...if its too short after a EW then you can end up with them using the first nap to catch up sleep! ...then this gives you the lovely EW again!!!

Im actually in the middle of EW issues myself again and trying so desperately to figure it out...If my DD has good naps then she has NW if she has short naps or I tweak routine in any way I get EW!!! think this is a very difficult age!

sounds like you have been making amazing progress with those naps...and you are getting your brilliant sleeper back...yay!!

Annette.xx

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

Uh oh....I started wind down 10min too late (I think) at 7:40am and he only had a CN of 35min but woke up happy!  I don't understand....I guess I have to wait until tomorrow to start again?  He was definitely sleeping before the 3hr A time and didn't even really fight me going down.
When are they ok on one nap?  Or no naps???  LOL!  Just kidding

[annette.xx]

ok my guess here would be that he was ever so slightly UT as if OT would have cried when put down ...so maybe he is already recovering a little OT so you could now work on a 3 - 3 hr 10 first A time?

its so frustrating all this guess work isnt it!!

Im with you with the when do they get one nap and then no naps! it will be bliss! but then im sure we will be wanting those naps back just to get at least 30 mins peace!!!

Ive just put my LO down and think I too may have a UT nap in the waiting!! arrrrgggghhhh!!!

dont panic tho cos even tho im moaning bout my issues I have to say it seems to get much easier overall at 9 months - they seem to get the whole idea of sleep and understand whats about to happen and they actually want to nap - still the odd nap issue but overall much easier to recover as OT is alot harder to build up....

I think you are doing tremendously - a couple of months ago I had about 10 threads on these boards - I was desperate and didnt have the slightest clue where to start!!

Annette.xx

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

Ok so now how do I fix the rest of the day for naps?  I just put him down again and he was clearly tired...cried for only 5 min though and is already sleeping.  Depends on how this nap goes I guess?  Sorry for all of the questions!  I hope I can return the favour and help someone else out down the road....that is if I ever get my LO to sleep better.
Yes things are definitely better with us now that I know he CAN nap for longer than 45min...that was our issue before because he couldn't self soothe and get past the next sleep cycle. Also I was AP big time and not realizing it by nursing to sleep for naps and NW.  He was also napping on me just so we both could get some decent sleep because of all of the NW, bad mommy!  We were even co-sleeping up until about the 6 month mark and then he thought he could nurse all night long while sleeping so we are definitely in a better place now.

[annette.xx]

i too was the AP queen...I would get out of a bad habit then pick it up again later!! Im too soft!!

whats the day so far in routine format...

im thinking let him sleep as long as possible for this nap and hope that the nap lasts a long time so we can stretch day out just a little...

let me know!

Annette.xx

[Mommy_to_a_Monkey]

Ok sorry, got sidetracked....

So far:

5am - awake for the day
S - 7:55am - 8:35am
S - 10:55am - 11:20am

I think I am going to consider these 2 naps as one and put him down at around 2:20pm giving him 3hrs A time??
He seems to be ready for bed no matter what A time after his last nap at around 6 -6:30pm.

[annette.xx]

that sounds like a good plan to me!!

hope it all worked out!

I forgot how old is your little man?

Annette.xx