8 mo EW some NW- stuck in a loop

[marlowsmom]

Hi Ladies,
My DD is 8 month old.
Here is her EAS

A 530
E 630 bottle
E 8 solids
S 915- 1030 (usually falls asleep in the car b/c I have to make a school run)
E 11 bottle
E 12 solids
S 130 - 2pm sleep til 3 -330pm about 1.5 hrs & she fights me on this nap thats why it takes anywhere from 130-2 to get her to sleep
E 330 bottle
E 530 solids then bath
S about 630 - 7-  Really it varies on the wake time of the afternoon nap.

I don't want her going to bed OT but I don't want to put her to bed too late.
  Sometimes there is a NW or two but the other night she STTN but wakes at 5 or 530am.
Last night she was awake from 330 to 430.   On occasion I have these random NW that last anywhere from 30 min to 1hr 30 min.   She is battling a stuffy/ runny nose but regardless her schedule is the same NW and all is still the same.
The past two days I've been testing her A time limit.  I've gotten as far as 3.5 hours with no ill effects.   My question is how do I get her to push her wake up time back to 630am.   Should I keep extending her A time to as much as she can handle and go from there?   It looks like her maximum A is 3.5 hr.     This morning I pushed her A to 3.5 hr and got a 1.20 min nap.   I think I should try to push the afternoon A to 3.5 hours.  I'd like to get her going to bed at 7pm and waking at 630 am like she used to before those teeth came in.   She has two in now.   Truthfully I'd like to push her bedtime to 730pm but that is not an options yet.  
Is her early bedtime causing the EW and/or NW?  

Her EW are causing me to have to put her to bed early thus causing an EW!!  How do I shift everything forward w/o doing a CN?  We've pretty much dropped CN and I don't want to use it again.

Suggestions?  Ideas?    

  
  

[~Sara~]

Hi marlowsmom!  A fellow Houstonian!!!  Awesome

Would the catnap be really bad if it helps her get to that later bedtime??  I've not dropped the catnap yet, so I really have no clue.  When DS was have EWs, someone suggested that I offer a second catnap to get him to bed at 7:30 (he only sleeps 11 hours on a good night, so this was VITAL).

Another thing you could try is slowly shifting her days by 15 minutes.  Push her bedtime back by 15 and see what that does.  Also, you could try w2s for those NWs, as they sound habitual.

Also, do you think she could be teething again?  Does she seem like she's in pain when she wakes?

When she does wake at night and stays awake for that 30m-1.5h, what's she doing?

Lastly, is she doing anything new during the day (any new tricks) that might be disrupting her sleep??

[marlowsmom]

Hi Sara & fellow Houstonian!   
I was told by another mod that I HAD to drop the CN; she made it sound imperative that I do it ASAP.     

Marlow's got all the milestones down- solids, sitting, crawling, standing, starting to walk with assistance, two teeth in already.   Since DST her bedtime is anywhere between 630 and 7pm (I worked up from 6pm); it all depends on her wake and naps for the day.   

I tried to put her to bed around 6 -615pm for almost a week and she still woke around 5 or 530.    She wakes anywhere from 430 - 6 am which is just too early to start the day.   Her next nap will be around 915 then her next nap around 130ish.    Some days she sleeps 2 X 1.5 hr and other days her naps are 1.15min long.      She wakes slowly.   It starts with some babbling in her sleepy state, then shes sitting up, then standing.   That's it, shes up.     

This morning she woke at 450 and I tried for one hour to get her back to sleep.   I mostly shpat in the crib.   I'd pat for about 7-8 min, she'd get quiet and still and I'd sneak out of her room and watch her on the video monitor.    She would be still for a few min then get up and I'd start all over again.   After about 45 min of this I finally took her out and  held her.   She sticks her thumb in her mouth, lays her head on my shoulder but doesn't fall asleep.     She's just up.

It just the earlier she wakes, the earlier are her nap times and her bedtimes.   I keep her feedings on schedule no matter what.

Yesterday, she woke at 6am (which is almost bearable)  and I put her down for her 1st nap at 915 and she slept 1 hour.   I wanted to keep her up until 130pm but she was rubbing her eyes at 1245 so she took her 2nd nap from 1 to 2pm.    I had to CN her at 430 (she wouldn't go down any earlier) and she slept from 445 to 520pm.   She fell asleep at 715pm.   She STTN and woke at 450am!!!   She dozed on and off until about 6am.    I struggled until 615am to get her back to sleep and gave up.    I start the loop all over again. 
Yes I want her to sleep a bit later for myself but mostly for her.    She got 10 hr sleep last night and her naps haven't been stellar lately.   

Nice to know there are other BWs in Houston.   This website has saved my sanity more than once.   I've made friends with people from all over; its so cool!   
She has NW on occasion and she will be up for at least an hour. 

[Tweakster]

Hey there MM, we are in same boat...Finn's just slightly behind Marlow at 7.5 months. 
We still have EW as a result of DST and no idea how to get out of it. 
Last week I had to bring back the CN a couple of times...as hard as I was working to get rid of it, there's no point in compounding OT either. 
It's just a vicious cycle.

What about W2S?? DH was supposed to do W2S but his alarm didn't work or something so in desperation this morning I fed Finn at 4:45 (he woke at 4:30) and he went back down until 7. 

Personally I think it's milestones and development.  I read about the Wonder Weeks and how there is a real sleep regression at 8 months due to teething, sitting up, crawling etc.  Their bodies just compel them to get up, sit up, try to stand, etc.  It's really related to mobility.  When I found Finn at 4:30 he was on all fours rocking.  And just now he is fighting nap time, I had to go back in and he was in a half sit/trying to sit up position.

Even if it's not really that, it sounds like a good theory doesn't it lol?

[marlowsmom]

I've tried W2S on numerous occasions over the past 2 months.   I'm more that willing to give it another try.    As it is I'm got a temporary bed in the guest room for now. 
I've thought about it and part of her problem may be that she has been pulling herself up to the standing position for the past 2 weeks.   The last few days she has gotten to where she is reaching from me to the coffee table.   She is getting more and more daring and taking steps.
I gave her a CN last night and I feel it has something to do with her CN.   She hasn't woken that early in almost a week.
She got to take her first nap at 830am -945.   UGH.   Now the latest I can put her down is 1pm.    I'll probably have to do another CN!  I just hope it doesn't give her a EW.  The loop!!!
I read this post the other day and wonder if this is what needs to happen:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=159080.0
read reply # 4
mashimaro

It sounds like an excellent theory.   You're right; the tweaking never stops.

[Tweakster]

MM we could seriously trade babies right now.  They are like the same. Finn is back to teething, I mean I'm not sure now if he ever stopped!  He has 4 coming in top (1 all the way through, 2 are slowly breaking through and I can see the whitecap on the 4th) and now another 1 on the bottom just popped out of nowhere...that's like 5 teeth in 3 weeks.  He's off his bottle again today *sigh*

I have a post going on EASY regarding this EW issue, there's some good advice there.  DH tried to do W2S twice now both times preempted by Finn already being awake at 4.  Today at least he went back down between 4 & 5:18 but he was up since then.  I have had to nap him a bit early (5 mins) because he was going off the rails completely. 

So I don't really see us solving our troubles until the teething stops.  Or goes into a lull of some kind...I guess it's not really going to stop until all 20 are in :-(

[marlowsmom]

Alright, I took a couple of days to watch what time she wakes.   She got to sleep at 715 and she woke at 5am.  The night before last she got to bed at 645 and woke at 6.  Tonight she is going to bed at 630pm.    Once she is awake, there is no getting her back to sleep.    We got up at 5 and she started rubbing her eyes at 7 so I put her down expecting a short nap but she slept 1.15.   I hope that doesn't screw up the rest of the day.   
  Sometimes W2S either wakes her up within 30 min of me touching her or she only stays asleep 30 min longer.     Usually, its the former.   Now W2S was done before her 2nd tooth came in which came in about 1 week ago.    We have reason to believe that she is teething again.   We JUST got her 2nd tooth in one week ago.  I can't believe she has a 3rd tooth coming in already.

[marlowsmom]

All4Finn,
I have come to the conclusion that our babies have cell phones tucked in their cribs somewhere.   Late at night they are calling or texting each other and plotting against us.     That is the only reasonable explanation.    I'm going to have a sit down with Marlow but last time she just gave me a blank stare.   She was unimpressed.

Marlow's 5am wake up didn't really kill my day.   She slept from 7-815 then 1130 -1 and finally 4-435pm.    I'm putting her to bed early.   
I have also had the same issues with W2S.   I set my alarm only have Marlow wake just before me or right about when I intended to W2S.     I'm almost to the point that I just make 630 her bedtime and go from there.   Hopefully she'll sleep from 630 to at least 6am.   Once I can get that established then I will probably set her nap times.    Her nap times are usually at around the same time anyway.