2-1 slow transition and nap cutting catching up and causing OT?

[greenteamomma]

Lo has been transitioning since 8 months and we have had success with cutting the am nap to 30 to avoid nap refusal.  Even ONE minute passed 30 minutes and I have to fight with him for his pm nap for some reason. LO is teething pretty quick and we are currently dealing with molars, though teeth usually hardly bother him.  Two have come in previously without us noticing! 
 
The problem is that he is increasingly crying out during the night.  Last night was every hour fromt he time he went down until the morning.  He still slept to his usual time.  He doesn't wake or cry out for long.  Its like a yelp/moan for lack of a better explanation  and he doesn't need our help.  He has STTN for a while now with the occasional cryout once every few weeks.  It is definitely not normal and momma and appa are losing our minds.  I have not been able to fall back to sleep and when I finally do, he cries out again cause it's the next hour.  I can set my watch by him!  EVERY HOUR.  I assumed it was his molar and gave him motrin but it is not helping or reducing the wakes.  I'm not sure what to do.   
This was today's routine:

wake 6:30
bottle 7:00
solids 8:00
nap 9:45 to 10:15 I woke him and if I extend it by even 5 minutes, we get a nap refusal. 
solids 11:30
bottle 1:15
nap 1:45 to 3:30ish today, usually 4:00ish.  I wake him if it gets to 4 to protect the bedtime.
solids 4:30
bath then bottle at 6:45
bed by 7:15 ish. 

He usually has his first nap at 10:00 but I tried to put hiim down earlier to get him to have a longer pm nap but he went down for nap #2 at the same time so his A time was longer then usual.  Usually 3 hrs 15.   

Any ideas what could be causing these night wakes?     

[huntersmummyinoz]

it does sound pain related. normally OT waking tends to mean nw before midnight, so for it to continue all night makes me think pain. is this his first molar? molars are much much worse for them than their first 8 teeth as molars are HUGE by comparison. my LO teethed so badly with molars that it took alternating paracetamol and ibuprofen throughout the night to get thru the worst and he needed a dose 30mins before sleep in order to not refuse bedtime from the pain. certainly now not saying that your LO necessarily needs that much but rather dont rule out teething pain from giving one dose of motrin IYKWIM.

and as much as you've had to cut the nap previously and be precise with times etc, dont forget LOs A times often reduce and sleep requirements can increase when teething

[greenteamomma]

it took alternating paracetamol and ibuprofen throughout the night to get thru the worst

thanks for the reply.  what is paracetamol?  The ibuprofen here is every 6 to 8 hrs, were you offering two doses a night?

As for A times, I have put him down earlier yesterday and this morning for his naps.  I usually wake him from the pm nap by 4 so if he is down early and sleeps till 4 that will help him out. I also put him down early for bed last night.  He still woke at 6:30 this morning where usually an early bed means an early rise.  He was up an hour last night and needed help getting back to sleep though so he was exausted and probably needed to "sleep in".  I did offer something for the pain.  I think it is both OT and teething.  He must not be used to the pain either, as I said with two of his teeth he had no symptoms at all and we only noticed once they were poked through.  I think or thought I was pretty observant of his changes and moods but still didn't notice.....bad mommy!

[greenteamomma]

I gave him ibuprofen before bed last night and he seems to be better.  He caught up on his sleep and slept 11.5 hrs which made momma happy (appa is out of town)!  I had put him down early so I was worried we'd get an EW.  I think this has resolved itself somewhat and it was teething.  I can feel the "points" of the tooth but its not through the gums yet!   
I think we will continue to put him down a bit earlier for his CN in the morning.  That routine seems to be working well for him.  He's more rested since we aren't pushing that morning A time as much. 

[sherry lynn]

With the AM catnap you really want to put him down as soon as he is willing. There is no need to extend him at all. That just makes for a crankier baby.

I alternate Tylenol with IB if needed. You can alternate every 3 hours if they are really bad off.

[greenteamomma]

Hi Sherry Lynn!  As you might or might not remember....one of my many threads was about him having EW forever so we were pushing the A time to 4 hrs or 10:00 am  Also, with 30 minutes he only does 3hrs and 15-20 mins of A time until the pm nap.  If I put him down any earlier won't he go down early for that nap and then need to go down earlier for bed AND then EW start from just the natural cycle of things?  Or do you mean just during teething?

My IB says every 6-8 hrs?

[Mashi]

what is paracetamol?  The ibuprofen here is every 6 to 8 hrs, were you offering two doses a night?

paracetamol = acetominophen. 

[huntersmummyinoz]

yeah paracetamol is another type of pain relief, in australia it's panadol, uk it's calpol - i think for you it is in tylenol that sherry mentioned.

when teething badly (like now we are getting his last 2yo molar and awful nights!) we do panadol before bedtime and nurofin (ibuprofen, i think this is motrin for you???) during the night as it lasts longer than panadol and seems to help him get thru til morning on 2 doses.

as sherry said you can alternate the 2 types of pain relief when they are really in pain, so that would mean only every 6hrs for the ibuprofen. the paracetamol works differently to ibuprofen so is ok to alternate the 2 every 3hrs for a short while when LOs are in pain or also used to reduce fevers.

sounds like he is caught up on OT with just that little tweak to his routine so that's great. if you are worried about the ew returning, just keep on eye on it and if you get 2 or 3 ews in a row then switch back to your old routine.

hope it keeps up for you

[greenteamomma]

thanks all!

[sherry lynn]

Kirry explained it all

You would only be giving the IB every 6 hours.   But you would give Tylenol in the middle of those 6 hours if need be

[greenteamomma]

I understand now...I didn't know that you could "top off" the IB.  Now to figure out how to get him to take anything at night.....What a struggle.  I had to hold him down and DH is away on business.....another rough night!!!

[sherry lynn]

I hear you there. I can't give it at night either. DH has way more success with that so I send him. During the day it takes every single bit of physical strength I have to get it down   One of the pits of motherhood. It feels horrible to have to do.

Lyle just got over the flu and strep throat. Giving two different meds, twice a day was a ton of fun!! Actually 3, motrin for the fever. Sigh.

[greenteamomma]

here we go again...I'm so appreciative of all the help I have been getting here. 
His pm nap is now getting shorter and shorter over the last week.  Do I put him down later for his am nap now?  I could try to put him down at the previous A time.  His whole day is getting earlier and earlier every day too since he can only handle so much in the pm. 
here is today

wake 6:15
nap 9:45 to 10:15 I woke him (used to be able to have more A time, so usually down at 10 or 10:15)
nap 1:45 to 3:15 (used to be 2hrs 15 mins atleast)
bed will probably be 7:00

He needs that 2hrs and the day is getting shorter and shorter....

[sherry lynn]

So how long was the nap today?

He could be getting OT from that long A time in between.

[huntersmummyinoz]

can you try a diff flavour medication? my LO HATES anything strawberry flavoured but will take orange flavoured. wont take it in a syringe but if i put it in 1oz of water he will drink it.

agree with sherry, that's a long A time after 30mins nap. most LOs handle 2 to 3hrs and that is bubs who are 12mths+ old. if it's hard to get him back to napping at 10am, then you could try an extra 5 mins first A time every 3 to 5 days to get him there as that may help the ew.