Nights Getting Worse - 5 Month Old

[NadeneR]

Bedtime of 7/7:30 sounds fine. Personally I would let him have the full 45min CN followed by 2-2.5hrs A time.

Also just want to add, if you had a killer headache, you'd take something for it, right? Well, it's the same for DS. What I'm trying to say is, it's ok to be careful about giving meds, but don't let him suffer unnecessarily either. What teething tablets are you giving? I still use Hylands and they seem to work for DD. I also sometimes give pain syrup before she takes a nap to make sure she doesn't wake early as a result of pain.

I'm also familiar with the "other" routine (almost sure we're talking about the same one). It does give predictability, but is VERY RIGID, no straying this way or that from the "rules". Different strokes for different folks, but also having an older child, I need a level of flexibility which can't really be achieved with the other routine.

[clazzat]

It does give predictability, but is VERY RIGID, no straying this way or that from the "rules"

Absolutely - and I have found that using the BW flexibility but the other routine schedule has worked really well.

[Mom to M&M]

Thanks again! Problem is that DD's schedule is the same Tues-Fri with regard to pre-K but Mondays are different and weekends too - so we really need the flexibility! Plus right now i often put DS to sleep in his infant sleep for his afternoon nap - that way if he's still sleeping for full two hours I can leave to get DD without waking him (I pick her up at 2:30). But he won't fit in his infant seat forever! At least next year she has a school bus for kindy and on.

The poor boy is tired and fussy today. Gave a dose of Camilia and he fell asleep at about 4:50 - maybe minute or two before. Guessing he'll be up on his own by 5:25 - if not do I wake him then? Let him to till 5:30? Wake him sooner? Then do 7:30 bedtime? General consensus?

BTW - 7:30 bedtime in general would be ideal for us - 7pm is doable but a total rush as we don't eat dinner until 6:15/6:20 most nights...

Nadene - just read your new posts - and I agree re the headache/teething issue. BUT (1) I actually don't take anything for my head except homeopathic meds unless REALLY bad/un-functional and (2) I don't actually see any teeth/buds yet so know way of knowing how bad it is/long it will be. I alternate generally between Hyland's teething tabs and Camilia liquid and he has an amber teething necklace (I take it off at night though for safety). I only give Motrin when really necessary - try to avoid Tylenol at all costs (nasty drug IMO).

[Mom to M&M]

Much better night. Catnap went 4:50-5:30 (woke on own), asleep for night about 7:35, maybe 7:40. Heard him cry out around 11 or so but in sleep. Then heard him around 4:40 but only briefly and didn't need my assistance. Then up, probably for day, at about 5:45 - but not entirely his fault. DH leaves for work at 5:40 and as DS doesn't have a proper room/door he can definitely hear him if in a light sleep - even with his sound machine.

Will talk to his ND today but also thinking pulsatilla might be a better fit for him in terms of teething pain since he has more of those characteristics than the ones for Chamomilla or Belladonna (the ingredients in Hylands combo tabs).

Meanwhile, hoping for a good day today. Still tired myself though - DD was up crying for me at 1:30!

[Mom to M&M]

Things still not good... Last night he was asleep by 7:10/7:15. But up at 11:40, did rub/shush, etc for a while but he was very hungry and inhaled 5 ounces at 12:30. Then pooped. Then slept from 1-5:30, then got him back to sleep from 5:45-6:30. The night before was very similar and it's been on a worsening path for a few weeks now - a month or two ago he would usually sleep a 6-8 hour stretch, eat (we don't DF) and then a 3-4 hour stretch after that.

Growth spurt maybe? We just started solids a few days ago so maybe that will help with hunger? It's not the cause of or worsening nights - things were getting worse before this! Something else to adjust with routine? In general, he's usually up about 2.25-2.5 hours in the morning before sleeping 1-2 hours, then up again 2-2.25 hours before another 1-2 hour nap (if the first one was 2 hours the second is usually only 1-1.5 hours) and then up another 2.5 hours or so before a 20-30 minute catnap and then bedtime/asleep usually about 2 hours or so after catnap.

[Mom to M&M]

Now last night was better. Slept 7:10-3:10 and then was up until 4:20 (ugh) but slept until 6:55. Not sure exactly what difference was - definitely hunger a part - he drank much more than usual yesterday and wasn't AS starving when he woke middle night.

[NadeneR]

Hi Karen

Sounds like things are improving there. Hope the good nights continue.

To the best of my knowledge, he's not due for a growth spurt at the moment. Am I correct that he is about 30 weeks now? The growth spurt chart I have says that at 29 - 30 weeks they may be more clingy, but is no telltale sign of another leap, just baby learning that mom can walk away and that this is progress. Although it is still important to remember that they are individuals and will go through them at different stages, not necessarily by the book.

What is he like when he wakes at night and stays up for so long? E.g up from 3:10 - 4:20? Besides that he is hungry and takes a good feed, is he crying / unhappy / content / wanting to play?

Good luck, keep us updated!

[Mom to M&M]

He will be 6 months on Dec 5 - so he's now almost 27 weeks.

Two nights ago, when  he slept from 7:10-3:10 but then was up until 4:22, he was intermittently fussing, crying, wanting to play, etc.

Last night he was wanting to play and didn't fall asleep until about 7:30 or just after. Woke at 1 and was upset by 1:25. Resisted back rubbing, etc, acted hungry but only drank tiny bit - kept mouthing bottle and acting uncomfortable. Then was upset (not wanting to play) but couldn't settle. Ended up giving Motrin and he slept from about 2am-6:40am. Barely had any of his morning bottle this morning and has been napping since about 9.

[NadeneR]

Sounds so much like DD when she's teething. I know you said that you can't actually SEE any signs of teeth yet, but Talia is at her WORST before the gums show any signs of teeth coming through, sometimes a good 3 weeks + before there's a "spot" on the gum. Confusing, since you can't treat what you can't see. I've just gotten to know her behaviour and can almost accurately predict that we'll see another tooth in about 3-4 weeks. I find that she also feeds less in the morning  and sleeps more (shorter A, longer naps).

The fact that he's wanting to play at bedtime and sometimes when waking during the night, any chance that he could be ready for a little more A time? Just a thought. He's on what, about 2.5 hrs now?

Not sure where you live. Can you get Nurofen there? Works well for DD when teething. Alternate that and Hylands teething tabs.

I'll see if I can send you that growth spurt chart. Did post it a few months back, but mod was afraid of copyright issues.

Hope you get a better night!

[Mom to M&M]

From what I can tell nurofen is ibuprofen - so same as Motrin, no?

Hopefully then he gets a tooth soon! A times are usually about 2.5 hours - give or take 10-15 minutes.

[Mom to M&M]

Definitely guessing (and hoping) teeth. He'd only drink 4 ounces before bed (26 the entire day instead of 30-32) and definitely seemed uncomfortable. But did fall asleep by 7:30 so we'll see what the night brings.

[clazzat]

I would say that it sounds like teething too - recurring discomfort is consistent with that. 

Hope your night wasn't too bad.

[Mom to M&M]

Actually it was pretty terrible! After not drinking much and falling asleep independently in crib at about 7:30, he woke an hour later very unsettled. Drank another 4 ounces and gave teething tablets and had him back to sleep before 9. He cried out at 11 but didn't wake, cried out at 2:15 but put himself right back to sleep, woke at 4:40, tried to settle until 5:10 but couldn't so fed 4 ounces, gave more teething tablets and slept from about 5:40 or so until 7:10. Meanwhile, DD (almost 4.5 years) had a bad night too - waking crying for me at 11:30, 1:30 and a little after 3!

Wish I knew for sure if it was teeth - definitely seems like it but so hard to say.

We'll see how today goes. He was super tired/fussy this morning and fell asleep on way home from pre-K drop-off at 9:10 and is still sleeping now almost an hour later (parked car seat in bedroom).

[NadeneR]

Awwww, rough night.  Especially when you have to deal with 2 lo's who need you.  What's waking DD up at night?

Ok, so between 7:30 PM and 7:10 AM, he needed you twice, since the other times he was able to put himself back to sleep.  If you look at it that way, it's not too bad.  (I know, easy for me to say as I didn't spend an hour up with him during the night).  Both those times you fed and gave teething tabs and he did a GOOD stretch afterwards each time.  So definitely sounds like a teething issue, and probably a degree of hunger too as he's taking in less during the day.

Other than giving pain meds if / when needed, there's really not much else you can do. Oh, just a thought, I read here somewhere (looked for it, but can't find it now) that one of the moms gives meds as you would a DF, just pop it in without actually waking lo just before mom and dad head off to bed.  Would he wake completely if you tried that?

I hope your efforts are rewarded soon by a beautiful little pearly white!!!  At least then you'll know what you're dealing with the next time he starts "acting up" again.

BIG HUGS and really holding thumbs for a better night!!

[Mom to M&M]

Wish I knew with DD. She goes through phases of this every once in a while. Half the time she's only half awake, if that.

To be honest, his night would have been tolerable if it hadn't been combined with DD's - they were tag-teaming us! Maybe I'll see how tonight goes and if it's bad again try that tomorrow night with slipping in meds before we go to bed. Just hate using them (even homeopathic ones) every day if it's going to be AGES or something.

He's definitely been fussy today - about to try for a catnap in a bit and we'll see from there.

Thanks again!