7 mth old just not settling well for naps or bedtime anymore..very OT/OS Help!

[chanashleigh]

Hi there...

My DD2 has always been a great sleeper and she was a sleepy baby, she was on the classic 4 hr easy although getting her to stay awake for 2 hours was hard, especially in am. I know for a 7th month old she was probably having too much sleep but it worked, I just followed the signs and she slept for 2x2 hrs and a catnap with one or no NW so we did not bother changing anything. She was also wrapped, settled herself and everything was great up until about 8 days ago.

Now, putting DD2 to bed is a real hassle. I am not sure what has changed! I realise that some tweaking is due but at the moment due to her not settling well, DD2 is becoming OT and OS (over stimulated). She seems to do this all by herself in her cot because she won't stay still anymore! She has rolled for a long time so I did not think that this would have caused the sudden change. I thought that maybe it could have been the wrap but she has had one arm out for about 4-5 weeks now so that really could not be it  

At the moment the only way DD2 settles is if I hold her firmly so she does bloody move. If I catch the sleep window, it does not take much but the worst is at night...it takes upto an hour and by this time she is really OT and OS. I thought she might have been too OS before bed so we have tried winding down for upto an hour and yes the settling is better but not like before! Can teething cause this?

I have thought about just leaving her until she goes to sleep but honestly she gets more OT and more OS, she rolls on her tummy and kicks about and talks. Oh there is never any crying..only when I try and get her to be still which to me would suggest OT? I really don't know what to do or try...its really frustrating, what has changed this?

NW have not really been effected as of yet. I might speak too soon though. Tonight I tried both arms out her wrap to see if that was the problem. No....did not make a difference so I just left them out. See what happens with that.

I don't really know if she is teething, sometimes I "think" I see signs but who knows, there is nothing there and its been 8 days and this has happened 95% of naps and bedtimes. This OT and OS has also caused some short napping but I have started using sshh/pat when I think she will wake, I can usually tell by how long it takes her to settle and jerk about IYKWIM.

Is this caused by her major routine tweak needed? Like I said, I know a tweak is needed but have not been successful with increasing A time because in the past week she is just getting too OT from not settling? Had to take a step back just to try and get her to catch up. There really is not much of an EASY at the moment, its more EASAE..short A times mixed with short naps and OT and OS....its been a bit of a struggle.

Like I said earlier, at 6 mths she was still on a 4h easy but could not really stay awake for 2 hours. Since then, I have started solids, taken one arm out of wrap and thats it but that was all about 4 weeks ago....I have also tried to start extending A times but not getting along very far with that. To be honest her routine is all over the place, its really frustrating. Some times her bottle times are near her sleep times and solids times can't be consistent because she is not hungry enough! At the moment her routine is pretty much.

6:15am wake (DD1 wakes at 5:45-6am)...EARLY RISERS  
6:45am bottle
8:05-8:10 nap for 1.5 hours ...I am pushing it for this long...have to pat and hold firmly for her to settle
9:35-9:40am wake
10:45 bottle (an hour after waking! I really don't like this but she is not hungry earlier! Was normally giving solids after bottle but not hungry enough or enough time before next sleep time)
11:35-11:40 nap for 1.5-2hrs
1:05-1:35 wake time and give solids
2:45 bottle
3:00-3:30 nap for 45 minutes if I am lucky
wake at 3:45-4:15...have been trying to give a bit of solids around 4:30ish
bottle at 5:30-6pm and bed straight after.

Her last awake time is the longest and she seems very OS by this time. I really feel like I am missing something or like I am not doing something right?

Sorry for the book, any ideas or thoughts would be really great.

[brenda2]

i think she is UT.  sometimes a jump in A time can happen all of a sudden.  at 7 mo she should be able to do 2.5 hours A time even if she is a sleepy baby.  my 5.5 mo (who is at the low end of sleep needs) is doing 2.5 hours.  she may still need the catnap for another little while but most los do drop it between  7-8 mo.

she may have gotten used to the short A time and that is why she gets a bit fussy after just 2 hours but i bet that you will get better results f you extend her A time.  you can do it slowly - by 10 min every couple of days.  i bet she's having a hard time settling for naps because she's really not tired enough.  this is also why she's fighting the catnap.

if there is never any crying i think this also points to being UT.  if she was OT she would be screaming and you would get 30 min naps, not 1.5 hour naps.  you mention short naps, if they are 45 min naps this also usually means UT.

[becky1969]

Hello sweetie! Will try to give some perspective from my end to! I have a very high sleep needs kid.  Super sleepy guy, so will let you know what I'd do in your place.  PP gave awesome advice on stretching and being UT (totally agree with her), so I'm going to talk more about the swaddling issue.

We had issues at this very same age.  The problem is two-fold I belive: A times are too short and I think you need to let go of the swaddle completely  Once they start rolling, one arm out is often more of a distraction than a help.  It oculd be that at first she tolerated it, but as she's become more mobile it's being an annoyance and sleep detractor rather than sleep helper.  Believe me, I did NOT want to let go of the bloody swaddle either! LOL! We swaddled until 7 months too, but started having the very problems you're having -- he'd move around so much he couldn't fall asleep! It took 3 days but then we were completely swaddle free and he slept better than he had in AGES! I even made a huge mistake and went back to the swaddle at 10 months b/c we were having awful NWs.  It was a crutch for me -- not him-- and going back was a huge mistake.  


Sounds to me like your DD might have some touchy tendencies, so these LOs can have a tough time transitioning thru the mobility milestones.  But it will just take her some practice to get used to being able to move about.  At first it *will* wake her up.  But over the course of 1-2 weeks she will slowly get used to it and it won't be an issue anymore (until the next mobility milestone: pulling to standing.  Oh boy.  Let me know if things go haywire then too, as we went thru that!    ).



Now, my guess is you have a textbook touchy.  I think that's why you feel like she can't even make 2 hours.  I don't think that's correct.  I have a feeling you are misreading her cues.  Most babies ditch sleepy signs at 6 months old.  At that age textbook babies esp. start showing sleepy signs at their normal nap time.  I have moms on here with 12 month olds still on the 6 month routine! LOL! And it's b/c that's when they *thought* their child was sleepy.  And believe me, when you first start to stretch her it will be a battle! But once you get her to a more appropriate A time she will really shine and sleep better.  Most 7 month olds are doing 2h45.  Let's try to get her to 2h30 first and see how she does.

What I would do is push by 15 minutes every 2 days:

Days 1-2: A time=2h15

Days 3-5 or 6: A time =2h30.  Stay here for 3 or 4 days and she how she does.  If no improvement,

Days 7-8: 2h45.  Then let's assess.


Let's make all As the same length.  You're going to have short-napping, but ignore that.  Stick to this A time routine as much as you can.  You can shorten the last one of the day, if you think that will help nighttime sleep.  But for naps let's try to keep her stretching as much as possible.


You're in for a week of crazies.  But I predict by next weekend she'll be napping much better for 1 if not both long naps and that you may even see all NWs disappear.  

How does that sound?

[chanashleigh]

Sorry for my very late reply, I just have not had a chance to get on here in the last week!

Thank you so much for your advice, I really appreciate it and what you say certainly makes sense!

Firstly, I did get rid of the wrap. She sleeps well with out it, no real problems at all with NW. Still some problems settling, well at least I know it may not have been the wrap. Nothing too much has changed, we have had some really good/normal days and have extended her A time but not by much. We have also had some shocker days, like today. Like you said, I see signs and I act, paranoid of her getting OT and OS. I think your right, a touchy bub, she gets wired really easily. Does not need much stimulation at all before she looks like she is shaking and jumping at sounds etc etc.

I am happy to give your suggestion a try, it sounds good and I will start tomorrow and let you know how it goes. Thanks again, I will keep you posted.....

[chanashleigh]

Hello again,

Today has been sort of a shocker so just wanted to vent really...I don't really expect any results in the first day, not that its gone too much to what I was trying to do but hey...

Had one NW last night then DD2 woke at 5:30am. Managed to get her back to sleep about 6ish and then she slept another 45 mins. This morning was ok, she woke at 6:55am and was asleep by 9:10am. 2hr15m....she was a bit fussy and took some help to settle, slept 45 mins. I was not home so DH did not put her to bed until I got home so by the time I got her to bed and she was alseep it was a 2hr40min "A" time. She was fussy again, but only took 5 mins to settle and go to sleep. I wanted her to have a good sleep so ensured longer sleep by patting through 45 min cycle, she slept for 1hr55mins and woke up crying. Tryed settling her around 2hrs for next A time, she looked pooped and was a bit grumpy. It took 30 mins for her to go to sleep and she slept for 10-15 mins. No time to try to get her back to sleep, gave her dinner, bath and bottle then back to bed an hour later and she still did not go to sleep until an hour later after that!!!! I am expecting NW and EW tonight.....oh boy....

Surely it is not UT. She had 10-15 mins sleep in about 5 hours awake time. She did not cry, she has never really cried much, but I can't imagine that she was not OT. There was the ocassional winge but nothing much more! Do you think she is stimulated by myself and DH trying to settle her all the time?? I thought this might be the case but in most cases DD2 will just roll onto her tummy or back and kick and talk etc etc, as soon as we leave the room. It seems she has decided not to settle herself at all!

Its frustrating because it was all so easy 4-5 weeks ago!

Any thoughts?

[becky1969]

Well, I think there's a number of things going on.

I'd say she probably is Touchy.  So that means you're going to have to be hyper conscious of how stimulating her As are.  With my son mostly I just let him sit in a bouncy and look out the window! LOL (he's majorly touchy, and as a toddler was dx with sensory processing disorder).  That was all he needed.  God help us if we took him to a restaurant or a grocery store -- all that stimuli? Drove him bonkers! He never cried at home, but out of the home that's all he did.

So make sure your As are nice and calm.  Let her be on her own without too much touching if that's what she prefers.

On the As, I think they are too short.  At this age, we really see more like 2h45.  So that first nap she wasn't sleepy enough at 2h15, so that's why only 45 min nap.  After that, there's a fine line between UT and OT because after a 45 min nap to start the day she's probably more inclined to go to OT land.    You'll note that your best nap was after DH did the 2h40 A time.  Yes, you pat/shushed thru 45 min cycle, but I'm wondering if you would have even needed to do that.  I suspect that was her happy place in terms of As, despite the 45 min starter nap.


So, I'd try tomorrow to have first nap 2h45 after waking.  See what happens! if it goes haywire, report back and we'll work on it some more.  I don't think your intervention is doing much either way -- I think the As are what's really off.

HTH!

[chanashleigh]

Thanks so much becky1969, it definitely helps 

Will see how it goes....

[chanashleigh]

Hi there! Its been a bit but I never got on the computer as much as I would like!

Just wanted to let you know that things have been much much better. Have increased A times over the past few weeks to at least 2.5 hours and she has been settling really well. Thank you so much, your advice was really really helpful. The only problem we seem to have it settling her for her pm catnap which we are working on getting rid of.

Thanks again!!!