Please help - little one wide awake at 4am!

[mariebitmead]

My LO is 5 and a half months and for the last 3 - 4 weeks has been waking in the middle of the night, wide awake and will not go back to sleep for a good 2 hrs. He is generally in a good mood during these night wakings although sometimes he gets fed up and cries a little.

We are on a good daytime routine with good naps 3 times a day. He is happy and active and generally an angel (except for the obvious night issue!).

He has gone from sleeping through the night at 4 months to this. He isn't hungry when he wakes and as he doesn't seem upset, I don't think he's teething (although I have used teething gel as a precaution). He started solids a week ago so the wakings started before he began solids and I am introducing slowly. He started to roll over at 4.5 months and frequently rolls onto his tummy in bed and falls asleep in this position... he does however seem to get stuck in this position and is unable to roll back and I wonder if this is what wakes him up? He gets very frustrated on his tummy I think (even though he always rolls!). I go into his room and roll him back and would assume / hope he'd fall straight back to sleep but alas no, he usually tries to roll back on to his tummy and then gets fed up again! He used to sleep on his side from about 4 months but now seems determinded to go on his tummy and it's 50:50 whether he is happy there or not! I know he can roll back but he seems to have 'forgotten' as I haven't seen him do it for 1.5 months. I am trying to teach him during the day but so far no luck.

For a few days he was waking at a similar time every night (2am) so I tried the 'wake to sleep' method for 3 nights. It doesn't seem to have worked and his waking varies from 2-4am now. When he is grizzly I've tried PUPD but I think by the end when he has been up for 2 hrs he is ready to go back to sleep anyway and as I said he is generally not too unhappy anyway. I have heard that this may just be a phase he is going through because of his age and becoming more active? If so, should I just ride it out? I am starting to get really exhausted though.

When he naps during the day he falls asleep quickly and with no trouble. His bed-time routine is good and has been the same since he was 3 weeks (bath, bottle, bed, story, sleep - he is always asleep within 20 mins, sometimes he grizzles but will self-settle). He occasionally uses a dummy and I have tried giving it to him in the night (he doesn't usually need it to fall asleep). I have also tried shush pat. Sometimes he will fall asleep within an hour but then wakes again within half an hour. 99% of the time it is 2-2.5 hrs to get back to sleep though. Any suggestions as to what to try next would be great as I am at a loss! I spoke to my health visitor about it and they weren't able to offer any suggestions, said I was doing everything right, so why won't he go back to sleep?!!!

He gets a dreamfeed at 10.30pm.

Thanks!

[Tweakster]

Hi there, could you post your routine in EAS format so we can see the wake time, naps and bedtime.  At 5.5 months my DS started fighting the CN and on the days he would do it we had EW so we had to get rid of the CN slowly over time. 

He is generally in a good mood during these night wakings although sometimes he gets fed up and cries a little.

This may signal the need for more A time and to drop a bit of day sleep, especially because you mention he's not waking upset.  Usually waking upset can mean OT or discomfort i.e. teething.

He started to roll over at 4.5 months and frequently rolls onto his tummy in bed and falls asleep in this position... he does however seem to get stuck in this position and is unable to roll back and I wonder if this is what wakes him up? He gets very frustrated on his tummy I think (even though he always rolls!). I go into his room and roll him back and would assume / hope he'd fall straight back to sleep but alas no, he usually tries to roll back on to his tummy and then gets fed up again! He used to sleep on his side from about 4 months but now seems determinded to go on his tummy and it's 50:50 whether he is happy there or not! I know he can roll back but he seems to have 'forgotten' as I haven't seen him do it for 1.5 months. I am trying to teach him during the day but so far no luck.

Development can really upset the sleep process.  Sleep in our LO's is not linear progress unfortunately.  Often it's like 2 steps forward and then a couple back before it gets better.  We slept Finn on his tummy from about 10 weeks I think it was.  Then he learned to roll from tummy to back and we had to let him just learn to settle himself on his back.  We used shush/pat and a sort of gentle withdrawal method.  Eventually he just learned to roll both ways and choose his own sleeping position.  Sometimes he sleeps on tum bum in the air now and other times we find him on his side lol  He's all over the place.  It won't take long before your LO is on to something new.

It does sound routine related to me so let's have a look :-)

[~Sara~]

I agree with Wendy that he's probably ready for some more A time during the day   We found that when Aaron needed that, his NW was about 1 A time in length, and he was as happy as a clam.  If this is the cause, then w2s won't really work for it.

[mariebitmead]

Thanks ladies. His routine is as follows:

7.15 - E
7.30 - A
9.00 - S (max 1.5hrs)
11.00 - E
11.30 - A
12.30 - S (max 1.5 hrs but usually 30-40 mins -  he's not so keen on this sleep)
15.00 - E
15.30 - A
16.30 - S (usually 30 mins. If he missed the 12.30 sleep I let him sleep longer but wake him by 17.45)
17.00 - A
18.15 - bath
18.40 - E
19.00 - story and bed
22.30 - dreamfeed

With regards to what activity we do... he plays on his mat, in his activity centre and watches me and the world from his bouncer. We go for walks in the park and  out shopping. We also go to playgroups and nursery rhyme time.

His maximum day-time sleep is 3.5 hrs (but I'd say on average he gets 3hrs). Should I cut this down? Even on days when he has had less than this and missed the 16.30 sleep it hasn't improved his night waking but maybe that would happen over time?


Thanks

[~Sara~]

Yes, I'd definitely increase his A times.  Most LOs his age are doing 2h15-2h30 of A time...your LO is only getting 1.5h.  He takes a good morning nap, but that second nap, I bet he's fighting it because he's not tired enough to go to sleep yet, or take a long enough nap.

When our DS was doing 2h15 A time, this is what his routine normally looked like:

A: 7
E: 7:30
S: 9:15 (2 hour nap)
A: 11:15
S: 1:30 (1 hour nap)
A: 2:30
E: 3:30
S: 4:45 (30 minute catnap)
A: 5:15
E/A:
S: by 7:30

Since there's quite a big difference in between where your DS is and where he needs to be, you shouldn't make this jump all at once.  Start by gently extending his A times 5-10 minutes (15 minutes max, if you know he can handle it).  I've found that going for a walk or softly singing songs/looking at books, are great ways to help them extend (you'll want to keep the activity low-key so that he doesn't get overstimulated).  After 2-3 days, extend again.  Keep extending in this pattern until his naps and his night sleep get better.

While it's true that some LOs are high sleep needs babies and therefore have shorter A times, it's usually not an hour less...maybe 15-20 minutes.

As you help get him used to the longer A times, his sleep will sort itself, but I wouldn't let him sleep past his E time.

So, try that out for a couple of days and let us know how it goes!

[Tweakster]

What Sara said. :-)

Also, where do you ladies get these cool sunnies for babies??  I would love to get Finn a pair but all the ones I have seen are too big.

[~Sara~]

Also, where do you ladies get these cool sunnies for babies??  I would love to get Finn a pair but all the ones I have seen are too big.

LOL, at Target, for $10

[mariebitmead]

Thanks very much, I will follow your suggested routine and see how he goes... (he does get a bit more A than 1.5hrs per day though, not sure if I laid the EAS out correctly but he gets 1.5hrs A between 7.30 and 9am alone).

See what you mean about fighting the 12.30 sleep - he's probably not tired enough!

Will report back in a few days... fingers crossed!

BTW - Jacob's sunnies are made by Baby Banz. He loves them. Although unfortunately not much sun in the UK at the moment!

[~Sara~]

he does get a bit more A than 1.5hrs per day though, not sure if I laid the EAS out correctly but he gets 1.5hrs A between 7.30 and 9am alone

Right   When we say A time should be ~2h15, we mean during one EAS cycle.  So, he'll have about 4 2h15 A times during the day (totaling about 9 hours of awake time throughout his day).

Good luck! 

[mariebitmead]

Ah I see! Sorry for the confusion. All going well so far today and he slept for the full hour on the 2nd nap which is great... am feeling hopeful about the night to come...

[~Sara~]

I'm crossing all fingers and toes for you, too!

[mariebitmead]

Hello ladies,

Ok, we are now on day 7 of the new routine which has been going well and Jacob is getting more A time as per your suggestion. Unfortunately his night wakings haven't improved and he has still been waking each night and is wide awake and wanting to play. I have continued to keep the lights off, not feed him etc so he knows it's night time and just try to get him back to sleep. Some nights he'll drift off but then wake again within 20-30 mins and other nights he simply won't go back to sleep for 2-2.5 hrs.

Last night I was just so exhausted that I brought him into bed with us (a v bad habit which I don't want to repeat) he fell asleep without complaint after just laying there quietly for half an hour or so. This made me think he is waiting for comfort from me when he wakes in the night, but I would then wonder why he's waking and also if he can settle himslef during the day and when he's put down at 7, why not in the middle of the night??

Also, I bought him a sleep positioner to stop him from rolling as I thought getting stuck on his tummy was waking him up. Well, the first night we used it he complained a bit but then slept til 5 when he stirred a bit but went back to sleep!! That was on Thursday however and I have used it each night since and he has woken up each night much like before.


I'm not sure what to do next? Obvioulsy I will carry on with the new routine, but if you have any other suggestions I'd love to hear them!

[~Sara~]

Hi hon!  Sorry that I'm just now responding to you...it's been horrible trying to find some computer time lately (4 adults, one computer, online christmas shopping to be done...not a pretty picture).

Okay, so let's take a look!

He's about 6 months old now, right?  It could be that he's waking at night due to his 6 month growth spurt.  Do you think that might be the case?

It very well could be that his rolling was disrupting his sleep.  Having not personally experienced this yet (but believe it's in the near future for us), from what I've read of other moms' experiences is that eventually, they'll settle down at night.  Just give them plenty of time to practice their new trick during the day, and just work on resettling in the crib at night.

How have the past couple of days been?  Have things settled down?  Is he handling the A times well still?

[mariebitmead]

Hi Sara,

Thanks for your reply... online shopping is the way forward for beating the crowds of Christmas shoppers!

Well, things are still much the same here. He manages to STTN about once a week and there doesn't seem to be any reason how he manages it on those nights! I don't think it's a growth spurt so am now pretty sure it the rolling issue. He loves rolling but hates getting stuck! Everytime he wakes in the night you can guarantee he's stuck on his tummy and then he gets himself all upset which wakes him up.

The A time and his routine are going well. I am giving him lots of tummy time during the day and trying to teach him how to roll back (he has his arms in the wrong position making it very hard for him). My teaching is slow going!

Unfortunately wedging him at night doesn't seem to work as he is quite strong and manages to break through his sleep positioner! I guess I will just have to hope it settles down soon.?

If any other ladies out there have experienced the same issue I'd be interested to know how long it took to settle down - it's been about 6 weeks for us now!!

Thanks x

[simsim7777]

Hi
I am also experiencing teh same problems as you. My 7 month baby has been waking up at 3am and 7am for teh last 8 nights and she usually sleeps thru till 9am.
She wakes and plays for a couple of hours. She only sleeps on her tummy but now she can roll so she wakes and rolls on her back and will not go to sleep until i roll her back onto tummy. I have tried wake to sleep for last 2 nights and still no luck yet. I was reading that you have a sleep positioner, i am thinking of trying this out. Where did you buy it from?
I am so exhausted! The thought of it going on for a few months is really depressing me!