3.5 month regressions

[FionaS]

Hi there.  My dd is 4 months on the 7th December. 

This is what we used to have...she was on a 2.5 hour easy (sometimes 2, sometimes 3).  Naps were 2 hours mostly but she has always had a very short A time...45 mins max.  We are managing to increase this slowly.  She was settling at 6.30pm every night, generally without crying and sleeping until anywhere between 4am and 6am, feeding then going back down until 7.30am.  It was amazing!  She has always self settled with no props, on her own in her own room.

Now, we are managing to get her to 1 hour 15mins A time sometimes, though usually she still only does 1 hour.  Her naps are still fine (providing we stay home...she seems to be incapable of sleeping out and about which is very hard as we have a 3 year old too).

She is no longer settling well at night.  If she does go to sleep around 7 she is waking again within 45mins and then taking anywhere up to 2 hours to resettle.  We have never fed to sleep but I feel as though that is what she is trying to do.  If I offer her the breast, she falls asleep on it but when I rouse her to put her to bed she won't settle.  I'm doing pat shhh but it is taking ages each night.

On top of that, she is now waking twice to feed...once at 12.30 and once at 5.   This has been going for a week and follows a solid 5 weeks of doing at least 10 hours a night.

It is almost Christmas time and I have a function to attend in one week.  At the rate we are going I am going to have to pull out.  Any and all help is appreciated!

Our EASY looks something like this.  However, as we have to go out most days it gets hugely thrown as she doesn't nap out (we've tried everything!  if she does fall asleep she only sleeps 20mins out!).  She has very high sleep needs and as mentioned doesn't cope with much more than 1 hour A, despite our attempts to slowly increase it.


E 7.30
A
S 8.30 to 10.30

E 10.30
A
S 11.45 to 1.30

E 1.30
A
S .2.30 to 4.15 ish

E 4.30
A
S 5.15 to 6 or 6.30

A
E 6.30 or 7
wind-down
S....this is taking up to 2 hours to happen!

[brenda2]

i would push her to increase her A time.  i know you say she is at high end of sleep needs but 1 hour A time at her age is really low.  i would try to increase it and get her towards a 3.5 hours EASY.  if she is at high end of sleep needs she may not really be on a 4 hour EASY until closer to 5 mo which is ok.
try increasing her A time by 5 min every 3 days and see how she does.  if she does the extra 5 min and still does a long nap you're ok.  if she does a 30 min nap then you increased it too much and you have to reduce it a bit.  sometimes babies get used to their A time and they do their tired signs but they're not really tired - just bored.  there must be lots of stimulation to keep her going with a 3 yr old running around??  i'm finding it much easier to keep my second entertained than my first - dd1 does all the entertaining of dd2 for me!

[FionaS]

The thing is the days we go out, which is most days due to Kindy, she will miss a nap entirely as she won't sleep anywhere so then for the rest of the day her A time doesn't even reach 1 hour.

I'm also struggling to get her into her cot.  I've put her bassinett in the cot but she won't even sleep like that!  It would seem the only place she will sleep is in her bassinett if it is in exactly the same spot...if it is moved she won't sleep.  Why on earth???!?!?!

[brenda2]

kindy runs are tough i know.  are you just driving there and straight back?  will she nap if you put her straight to bed when you get home?

we never had trouble with either dd napping as long as they were in a dark room in some kind of playpen, crib etc.  important to do same routine, winddown,  etc and that room is dark and quiet.  neither dd was good at doing a full nap while out, though i will get a short nap if we are out as long as we are moving - no way in a stationary car or stroller.  no if dd2 i have her nap in the carrier on me when we are out, but still only get a short nap.  we mostly stay home for naps tbh.  don't know what to tell you to transition to cot, just keep trying and she'll get used to it.

[FionaS]

Do you think I should just put her in it cold turkey or ease her into it? 

Today I've put the bassinett facing the same way as the cot will.  We used the same wind-down, same dark room, same sleep music...but it took her sooooo long to settle!

I think she was having a 3mth growth spurt as she is now back to sleeping 7pm to 5.30am.  She then wakes again at 7.30.  Do I feed at 5.30 and 7.30?

Re: the sleeping out...she doesn't seem to sleep in the car at all.  She will somtimes sleep in the car capsule if it is is sitting somewhere, but ironically not if there is movement.  She'll sleep 20mins in a pram whether moving or stationary. She used to sleep on me fantastically but now won't do that either!  She seems temperamentally to be really easy BUT does this sleep business mean she is probably actually touchy??  My first was very much touchy / grumpy and is now spirited/grumpy so I was hoping for something a little easier!

[brenda2]

putting her into the cot during the day with lights on to play, with you in the room and out of the room will help her to get used to it.  having the bassinette in the cot for the first few naps is also a good idea.  you can put the sheet from the bassinette on the cot so it will smell like her, and put a worn tshirt of yours in there too so it will smell like you.  do that for a few days and then i would just go for it.  you could also do only the first nap of the day in the new cot as this is often the easiest nap to get them down for, they're not ot.

i would feed at 5:30 and at 7:30

have you done the temperament quiz?  she may be touchy when is comes to sleep - certainly sounds that way.

[FionaS]

So you think she just feels insecure?  I actually put her bassinett mattress in the cot + I attached the hood of the bassinett to the top of the cot so she could still see her usual "view" but even then she wouldn't settle.

[brenda2]

so the bassinette mattress is loose in the cot?  that might not be safe.  i would just put the whole basinette inside the cot...is the room really dark?  is she used to it being really dark?  maybe my kids never had a problem with changes in sleeping arrangements because they were used to sleeping in complete darkness so didn't notice a change in scenery!! lol!  attaching the hood of the basinette to the cot is a good idea to limit stimulation.

is she tired enough when you are putting her down for nap?    this can influence how easily she will go down.  maybe if you increase her A time a bit it will help.

is she settling at night ok?  sounds like she is doing fantastic at night for her age.  the napping troubles aren't causing problems for you at night so that's good.

[FionaS]

She is overtired after 1 hour awake and takes longer to settle.  If she is very overtired e.g. up for 2+ hours as happens when we go out, she always ways at 45mins. 

I haven't actually moved her bassinett fully yet so we are yet to discover if the disruption will disturb her nights.  I moved it back to it's original spot once I knew it was going to be tricky.

We have blackout curtains but she has never had then fully closed for her day sleeps and always slept fine with the light.  If closed some light comes in the tops and bottoms so it isn't pitch black.

Today I put the bassinett where the cot will be so her bed/view is 100% the same EXCEPT she can see a teeny bit of the tops of the curtains.  With just that tiny change we ended up with settling probs, overtiredness and 45mins all day.  Now of course she is struggling to settle for the night as she is so tired.

[brenda2]

wow...that's tough.  both my los have always slept fine in a playpen or whatever at friend's houses, gramma's etc as long as A time is right and same winddown and dark dark room.  i just have problems with both of them sleeping while out and about in the stroller or car.

when stretching her you really only want to do an extra 5 min every couple of days then if she is that touchy.

[FionaS]

That she is touchy...I was hoping I wouldn't get another touchy baby   our first one was soooooo hard for about 18months.  I hope it isn't something I do wrong to make them touchy.

[brenda2]

no - it's just their personality.  maybe you or your husband is a bit touchy?  my first is textbook spirited and my second is angel touchy.  i'm starting to notice the touchy part a little more as she gets older, too much stimulation is hard for her.

[FionaS]

Neither DH or I are at all touchy I don't think.  Thankfully DD1 has become less touchy as she has got older.  As a baby even a sneeze in another room would set her off but now I wouldn't describe her as touchy at all...now she is more spirited

Not really on the original topic but....DD2 has been in her cot all day and we've had no probs at all!  Perhaps the day I tried it she was having an off day as all her settling / naps have been great today!!!

[brenda2]

great!  it probably just took her a couple days to get used to it.

[FionaS]

Hi Again. We are having night waking problems again but I can't stretch her A times. We are still on a 3 hour EASY as 1 hour 15mins is her absolute max A time before she is yelling the house down and hard to settle. Her naps are great, all over 1.5 hours.  She sometimes sleeps through 11 hours, sometimes wakes 3 hourly.  She is 4mths now.