30 minute nap problem....driving me up the WALL!!!

[Spandanna]

great so today he woke up at 5.05 am!! What's going on?!! This is doing my head iN!

[becky1969]

I think you did the right thing putting him to bed early.  And he had an 11 hour night, which is fine!  It's just that bedtime was so early your 11 hour night ended at 5:30 in the morning.    But I don't think that was a bad decision.

We're still trying to find the happy A spot, and we'll get there!  Just aim for somewhere between 2h20 - 2h30 NO MATTER WHAT today.  even if he has a short nap, I don't want him in bed before 2h20 unless he's clearly losing his little head. 

Truly, we're getting there! But it's probably going to be a rocky 3-4 days, and and iffy 3-4 days, and then we'll be there! Hang in!

[Spandanna]

Thank you...I'm feeling so low today. He seems to be stuck in this perpetual over tired state and I feel like I can't get it sorted. I just keep doubting myself.

 He's not even settling for naps today without real assistance....although just before his last nap I took a look in his mouth and can see tooth no.2 jut under the gum so maybe this is making matters worse, oddly this actually made me feel better because at least there may be some other explanation for his bad mood today

So, after he woke up I fed him a few oz of milk (he probably didn't need it but I was hoping he'd go back down (he didn't) so I tried resettling with dummy. All went quiet eventually so i thought he'd gone to sleep and heard him again just before 7 but then by 8 he was yawning lots and really cranky so I wondered if maybe he hadn't gone to sleep and he was tired...tried to put him dowqn, wouldn't go so I got him up really stressed wondering did he didn't he sleep and annoyed I didn't get out of bed to check!!! so basically today has been rubbish so far He's had a half hour nap about 9.15 and a 20 min nap in his buggy about 12.300(!!!!couldn't get him down at all!). BUT, at 2.10 he went down with his paci and then I rocked him back to sleep when he woke up 30 mins later (I really want him to get a good sleep any way possible to break this OT cycle I feel like he's in. I'm going to have to start again tomorrow with this 2hr 20 min routine and I'm going to really work hard at it. Going to crank the monitor right up and put it by my bed tonight so i hear in the morning the minute he wakes up (hopefully at a normal hour)

As for the early bedtime he's very rarely ever made it beyond 6.30/6.45 but always gone until 7/7.30 sometimes even 8am! Does it need to be a 7-7

Also a question on cues. If he's just cranky and rubbing eyes is that enough of a tired cue or should I always wait for a yawn to assume he's tired?

Really appreciate all your help. Would be feeling completely hopeless without this site

[becky1969]

After 3 months old the yawns are less reliable of a cue.  You should now be using eye rubs and crankies.  At 6 months old (hold on to your hat!) most sleepy signs start to disappear and so then you're just really going to have to pay attention to A times pretty closely.

If he's teething then all bets are off! Many LOs are more tired than usual when teething.  So, play around with the new A we've outlined, but honestly I'd try some medicine before naps and see how that helps.  Some personality types are just more sensitive to teeth.  touchies come immediately to mind, but Spiriteds can have issues too.  So don't beat yourself up! Wehn they're teething we just do the best we can. Usually once the teeth are in then they just go back to normal on their own.  Each tooth can be accompanied by 2 weeks of symptoms, so it's not just the time you can *see* the tooth that it hurts them.

[Spandanna]

That would explain quite a lot!! It's been over a week since tooth no1 cut through and he hasn't cheered up much since then!

So glad to hear the cues disappear! as if things weren't hard enough as it is!

By the way I managed to keep him down for 2 hours 10mins (woke up about 4.15pm!!!) with paci and rocking after 30 mins! A real result as it's been a while since he went that long...hopefully that might mean he's not so overtired for bedtime and maybe then less likely to wake at 5??? I can but dream!

Well, I'm having a break tonight. My mum's having LO and I'm going out with some Mom friends for a meal. So tomorrow I'm starting again with fresh eyes....here goes...

[Aleksandersmom]

I hope you don't mind if I jump on board here -- I'm having the same problem with my almost 9 month old.  She IS teething (just cut 2 teeth) but I'm not sure how long to keep her awake.  It seems like no matter when I put her down for her naps, she is wide awake after 30 minutes.  She is a twin and so I have the compounded problem of trying to keep her from waking her sister up when she takes short naps.  How long should a 9 month old stay awake between sleep and how much should I shorten the A time during periods of teething?  Awake time for her sister is usually 3 hours.  I can't even get more than 30 minutes out of her in the car!  I looked for sample routines for 9-12 month olds and most of them were only staying up 2-2.5 hours in the morning and my girls do 3 so I'm not sure how valuable those sample routines are in my case.  Anyway, any help would be appreciated!

[becky1969]

Spandanna -- enjoy your break!    I hope that nap gives you the night and morning wake up you desire. 



Alexandersmom: Actually, a 9 month old A time is more like 3.5 hours.  It may be that your girls are starting to diverge on A times a bit and perhaps one twin just needs more A! The 30 min nap actually sounds UT to me.  I'd try 3h15 for a couple fo days and then 3h30 and see what happens.

[Spandanna]

Ah thanks it was a fabulous break! Just what I needed. LAst night was much better. I did hear LO wake at 3am and 5am but both times just shouted out a couple of times and then resettled himself and was awake for the day at 6.25am (12hours!!) yessss! So just now he's gone down at 2hrs 20 (8.45) fingers crossed.

Good luck Alexandersmom... it must be soooo much harder having 2 to contend with. I hope things get better for you

[Spandanna]

9.21 awake!! 

[becky1969]

Try 2h30 next.

[Spandanna]

OK so both yesterday and today LO had two 30 min naps in the morning one 9-9.30ish, the other about 11ish and then a 2 hour nap (with a paci after 30 mins only) at around 2.30-4.30 then bed about 7. He has woken about 2 ish both mornings but eventually resettled. There is just no wy I can extend that morning nap. The same happened again this morning he woke at :
Woke at 7am
E 7.20 porridge and milk
A
S 9.25 -10.00
E 11.00 - bottle
A
S 11.20 - 11.50 (in the car)
E lunch
A
S 1.50pm ...and Asleep right now. I'm certain he'll be awake after 30 mins but with a paci re-plug I'm hoping for a 2 hour nap

I don't mind if this is his routine as much as the 4 half hour naps as long as he is getting one decent sleep in the day. The only thing with this is there's no time for a catnap and he clearly needs more than the half hour in the morning because he's sleepy again very soon after but I just can't extend it!! grr

[becky1969]

I think this explains everything!

Your 30 min naps ARE UT.  And here's why:

1) Nap 1 was 2h05 A time.  He napped 35 min.

2) Then he slept in the car after only 1h20 A time for 30 min.  Obviously, shorter A! But nap still the same length.

3) I'm guessing Nap #3 is short too b/c A times are too short.


I know it's scary to push him to that 2h20 mark, but I think that's *really* what he needs.  Just so you know? Some personality types get into sleep 'habits' and so look sleepy at their normal time even tho they're ready to extend their A.  That's what I think is going on here.  If you read in BWSAYP you'll see that she shows that sometimes you have to extend their A by doing quiet stuff in their room -- singing, looking at books, etc.  He may *want* to still go to sleep at that 2h mark, but it's not enough for him to take a full nap.


Try it! See where we get! I'm actually excited -- I feel like we've found the answer for certain! 

[Spandanna]

ha ha, excellent. I'm excited too. I feel like I'm getting closer (especially with being able to resettle him in the afternoon and getting longer naps)

But the first a time was 2h20 not 2h5 as he woke at 7am (only his feed was at 7.20 because I changed him first as nappy had leaked!)
 Maybe your previous idea of 2h30 may work?

With this nap he woke after 40 mins  I gave him dummy and picked him up and he went back to sleep. (Wish he could do it on his own but whenever i leave him awake he doesn't resettle  ) Hopefully he'll go the full 2 hours now he's still asleep and it's been  1hr 20 since he went down (with a resettle at 40 mins)...only thing is if he wakes at 4pm I can't fit the catnap in again. Do you think this matters or is this just a way of dropping that catnap? He's now 5 and a half months so maybe he would be dropping it fairly soon anyway??

[Aleksandersmom]

The day I wrote my last post she took a 1.5 hour afternoon nap -- she did wake up at 30 minutes, but then went back to sleep.  The next day she took an hour afternoon nap, but this AM she did 30 minutes, woke up, went back to sleep for 15 minutes.  Her twin is still sleeping beautifully, thank goodness! 

So maybe I should try tomorrow morning to go about 3.25 hours and then work up to the 3.5?  They both have been sleeping through the night so I'd rather try keeping her up longer when she's well rested.  How long should I keep her awake when she only gets a 30-45 minute AM nap?  Also, if the A time should go to 3.5 hours, doesn't that have them getting to bed later?  How long should the naps be?  My poor sleeper usually will nap about 1.5 hours when she takes a good nap, but the other will sometimes nap for up to 2 hours.  So if they get up at 7:30, nap at 11 for 1.5 hours, wake at 12:30, then their next nap wouldn't be until 4.  Even if they only nap an hour, this makes their bedtime 8:30.  Isn't that rather late?  I have 3 kids 4 and under -- the only time I get to do ANYTHING at all is after they go to bed.  I have been trying to make sure they are UP from their afternoon nap by 4 to ensure a 7 or 7:30 bedtime.  It also seems like if they sleep past 4, they are up even later.  Yesterday because of really poor naps I did 3 short ones instead of 2 and they were both awake until 9 PM! 

[Spandanna]

Right so I'm having no joy at all with getting longer naps out of him. He'll be 6 months old on Christmas eve and feel like maybe he will ned to be going even longer now than when I first posted because he's a bit older? But I also posted elsewhere that the last few day, despite sleeping from 7-7(ish) he is yawning like mad after only 30mins of being out of bed. He doesn't stop yawning either. I tried getting him down early but he wouldn't settle. I tried keeping him up for the full 2hrs 30 but he was so overtired he just screamed which is really unusual.

I feel like I need to start again tomorrow. What A time should I be looking for now?

Eeeek, I really thought we were getting somewhere