REimplementing EASY after tramautic dehydration

[tulalit]

I need help...
My DS is 6 mnts old tmrw. He's also starting his solid tmrw as well.
He's not on 4 hours EASY yet. I did try to implement 4 hours EAS, however, he was dehydrated for few days... I notice this when his nappies are not as wet as before and not many changes as before... There was red / orange colour in his nappy - it was very stressful few days for me. It was about 2 weeks ago. I basically BF him every 2-3 hours....

I do notice that if I feed him 4 hourly he sleep well at night only waking up once. I didn't DF him tho.

I need some guidance on how to start 4 hours EAS without dehydration again...
His days usually start about 7.30AM.

Should I BF him before and after solid? or just before solid only?

HOw long is his A time supposed to be? HIs A time usually 2.30hours, but he's only nap for 30-45mnts.. This is very stressful! I put him 2.15, he's awake after 45 mnts nap - this is UT i supposed. If his AM nap time is 45 mnts, the rest of the naps are usually 45 mtns as well during the day. So he can take about 4-5 naps.
How long is his A times supposed to be if his AM nap start only 45 mnts? I tried to put him in bed after 1.45hours A times, he'll sleep after 20-30mnts...

I would say that he's spirited / textbook baby...

Also, with 4 hours EAS - how many nappies are good indication that he's hydrated?

Thank you for the tips..

Yenny

[*Liz*]

Hey - how hot is it over there now?

Also have you introduced a sippy cup yet? For extra water now you are on solids?

I'll be back later about the rest - I have a few ideas that might help.

[~ Vik ~]

Hi Yenny

I am heading out to take my ds to daycare, but wanted to mark your new thread so that I can come back to it. I will pop on tonight after work!

Vikki

[tulalit]

thanks guys...

Hey - how hot is it over there now?

Also have you introduced a sippy cup yet? For extra water now you are on solids?

I'll be back later about the rest - I have a few ideas that might help.

Well, currently it's approx 20-30... next week is gonna be 30s plus... we usually stay home during weekdays and just bought portable air conditioner as well..
no, no training cup yet.. planning to do it soon after 4 hours EAS establish..
I don't know about water - can i give it to him? he's still BF.. He just started 1tsp of his solid (rice cereal) this morning
He sort of suck the spoon.. hahahaha

He's doing his AM nap now and has passed the 45 mnts mark! Yeiiiiii 

His EAS so far:
Awake by 7.30AM
E: 7.40
A:
E: 8.15 solid (took me long time to prepare as i need to defrost my frozen BM), finishing with BF again
A:
S: 10.05 ( i put him in his cot at approx 9.45)

[~ Vik ~]

Hi Yenny   Hopefully we can help your EASY on track!

I need some guidance on how to start 4 hours EAS without dehydration again...
His days usually start about 7.30AM.

So the best way to stretch to the 4 hour EASY and avoid dehydration is to go slowly.  So if you are currently feeding every 2 hours, you would first stretch it to every 2h10m (approximately) and stay there for a couple days.  Then you could stretch to every 2h20m for a couple days, then 2h30m, etc.  Generally, you extend feeds the same way you would extend A times, stretch a little at a time, giving him a couple of days to adjust before stretching again.  This will allow him time to get used to taking more in at each feed and prevent the dehydration you experienced before.  Does that make sense?  Would that be workable for you?
You may also find this FAQ helpful:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=120362.0  It's for stretching from a 3 to 4 hour routine, but you could apply it to your situation as well.

Should I BF him before and after solid? or just before solid only?

Tracy recommends giving solids about 1 hour after a BF.  Because milk is the most important source of nutrition, this ensures that he's still taking the bulk of his calories from your milk rather than solids.  Once your 4h EASY is established, you will (for example) BF at 730, solids at 830, and BF again at 1130.  During your transition though, you will find that your BF times change as you stretch out the feeds.  And that's ok!  Since you're just starting solids, you could keep them at a set time (for example, 1 hour after the first BF of the day) while you're stretching out the BFs.

HOw long is his A time supposed to be? HIs A time usually 2.30hours, but he's only nap for 30-45mnts.. This is very stressful! I put him 2.15, he's awake after 45 mnts nap - this is UT i supposed. If his AM nap time is 45 mnts, the rest of the naps are usually 45 mtns as well during the day. So he can take about 4-5 naps.
How long is his A times supposed to be if his AM nap start only 45 mnts? I tried to put him in bed after 1.45hours A times, he'll sleep after 20-30mnts...

A times for 6mo are around 2h to 2h15m.  When he wakes from the 45 minute naps, what is he doing?  Is he crying and upset, or happy and ready to play?  What about when he wakes from the 20m naps?  Liz will likely be able to advise better than me on routine tweaking   So great that he past the 45m mark today!!

how many nappies are good indication that he's hydrated?

Here's some information from http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/enoughmilk-older.html:
"Baby (older than 6 weeks) should wet at least 4-5 disposable diapers (5-6 cloth diapers) every 24 hours and the diapers should be really wet. At all ages, urine should be pale and mild smelling. As baby grows, so also does his bladder and its ability to hold more urine. For this reason, your baby may not wet as often as he did as a newborn, but typically the diapers will be wetter than when baby was younger. To feel what a sufficiently wet diaper is like, pour 4-6 tablespoons (60-90 mL) of water into a clean diaper (but keep in mind that if baby wets more often, then the amount of urine per diaper will be less). It's also normal for diapers to be wetter in the morning, especially with older babies."

HTH
Vikki

[tulalit]

Hi, thank you Vikki

an update:

I (with my dare heart) put him into 4hours EAS, i think it was successful.... 'fingers cross'. But I don't know it was the right way or not..
yesterday EASY was like this:
Awake by 7.30AM
E: 7.40
A:
E: 8.15 solid (took me long time to prepare as i need to defrost my frozen BM), finishing with BF again
A:
S: 10.05 ( i put him in his cot at approx 9.45)

Awake: 1150
E: 12.30 abt 10-15mnts
A:
S: 1425 (in his cot at 1400)

Awake: 1500 >____< (this is horrible, only slept about 30mnts - he saw me and smiled and didn't want to go back to sleep)
E: 1635 abt 10-15mnts
A:
S: 1730

Awake: 1750
E: 2000 (1side)
Bath:
E: 2020 (another side)
S: 2115 (late sleep as we went out last night)
he woke up only 1 during his sleep at approx 3AM then woke up to start his day at 6AM!!! (too early)

Today's EASY so far:
A / E: 0610-0620 (awake to eat then fall asleep then woken up after being put into his cot after 3 mnts)
Solid: 0715 finishing with BF for few mnts only
A:
S: 0840 (so far has passed his 45 mnts mark!!! )

Another gal in the forum mentioned that for 6 mnts, he should have his A time at approx 2.30 max. 2hours A time is too short for him and may be UT. Then, I pushed his A time for approx between 2.15-2.30... I hope it's working with 2.15-2.30 A time...
However, his 2nd nap usually 45 mnts. I have to see how will he go today... Hopefully it's gonna be 1.30-2 hours...

With his age, he still needs catnap?

Also, should I BF after his solid? I gave him solid, I think he didn't swallow it completely... that's why I BF him... he only took few slurps...

Good news, I think he's doing about 4-5nappies yesterday with 4 hours EASY Thank God, it's a good start...
His morning nappy usually very very heavy and bit of smells as well...
If it happened to dehydrate again, I will stretch the feeding time like you said...

How long is his A time should be if his PM nap is 45 mnts? 1.45 mnts?

[*Liz*]

Looks fine  . I think you just have to go slow and allow extra if you see warning signs really.

Average A at 6 mths is 2.5 hrs. They still need at CN until they can handle 3hrs A for all of their A times. So it is usually sropped around the 7 ish month moark, although some do drop earlier.

I didn't give extra milk with the solids - I just did the solids as part of the A. At this stage it doesn't matter how much they eat as they are still having 4hrly milk feeds. It isn't really a meal yet - just for fun really  .

I would perhaps start offering a cup of water at mealtimes so your lo can get used to it. I started at 6 months and I think Jacob was 11 mths before he drank any - so it is worth introducing. Not for milk yet, but just for a drink with mealtimes.

[tulalit]

Hi, we saw our GP today and checked his weight. He didn't gain any weight
He's still 7.7kg, it's still the same as 2 months ago when he did 4 months immunization...

I wonder if I should give him formula, but I really want to ebf until he's 1 at least...

His EASy been all over the place these days... we've been going out after his AM nap to do some stuff outside... 2nd nap usually 30 -40 mnts..

Also, if i give him water - I should give him in a training cup?

Btw, DF cannot pass 11pm - is this correct?

[deb]

When we gave J water we used a sippy - and she was 3 or 3-1/2 till she gave it up.

With Nat we gave it to her in tiny little play plastic cups we found at IKEA with a play tea set; they held maybe 2 ounces each at the most. She never used a sippy and drinks easily from cups and water bottles now at 4YO,while Josie (the older) still prefers a straw and had trouble with regular cups till maybe 6+YO.

Especially in such heat, probably not bad to offer an ounce or two of water with a solid meal, as much to accustom him to a cup and to water as to actually get any into him. LOL Odds are he'll wear as much as he'll get into his mouth for a few weeks anyway. LOL

[*Liz*]

I think I used every cup imaginable when I was trying J  . He now drinks from a hard spout free flow sippy, an open cup or a straw. Only thing he never got was a non-spill sippy. But, as Deb says, they are the hardest to move on from.

A lot of ebf babies do manage an open cup to sip from before they take to a sippy.

I wouldn't rush to formula honey - your lo is just recovering from that dehydration and might have lost a bit then anyway. I would just carry on ebf for now and get weighed soon to see how he is doing. I know that poor weight gain is worrying - my DS does that to me ALL of the time.

DF after 11pm is thought to be too interrupting to night sleep cycles and will therefore increase NWs.

 

Happy to look at your EASY again when you are ready.

[~ Vik ~]

Big (((hugs))) Weight gain can be such a stressful thing!

I agree with Liz, don't rush to formula just yet.  He absolutely could have lost weight due to the dehydration.  You fixed that by nursing more frequently, and likely increased your milk supply by doing that too.  Keep an eye on it, but you can absolutely continue to ebf.  Here is a link with more information that you might find helpful too:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=94121.0

HTH, and let us know how things are going

[First Time Mom]

If he hasn't gained any weight in 2 months I don't think I would offer him water just yet, I would offer him an extra drink of breast milk for the calories. I don't think I'd push a strict 4 hour feeding routine yet either, I think I would be somewhat flexible with bfing especially under the circumstances of the heat in your area and the fact that he needs to gain back his weight. My dd was a slow weight gainer when she was a baby and I remember in the summer here when it was hot I offered her an extra drink of breast milk instead of water when she was under 10 months.

[tulalit]

My LO was gaining steadily in his first 3 - 4 months. Then, the weight just sort of stay around 7.5kg from 4-6months.
I havent given him water yet after his meal. I am still offering him to BF after each meal - he takes it sometimes.

Will extra solid put him more weight? Hopefully, by next month he gain more weight.

I'll post his EAS by end of today... He's still doing 45 mnts after AM nap...

I'm starting to work part time tmrw for few hours. My DH will look after him.
I'll BF before I'm off to work. Can we feed him solid for his lunch at approx 11AM then BF after I've arrived home?

Thank you

[tulalit]

Today his EASY is so way out...
Awake: 0530 - wont go back to sleep after BF
A: in our bed (he sleeps in our bedroom, his cot is next to our bed. We live in 1 bedroom apartment)
S: 0720

Awake: 0945
E: 0950 - 1side
A:
S: 1205

A: 1245
E: 1425 (2sides, we went out for awhile)
S: 1505

A: 1550
E: 1715 (only few minutes)
S: 1750

A: 1825
E: 1830 (1side)
S: 2030
DF: 2250 (1side for approx 10mnts while sleeping)

I may also add that he cries evertime he goes to sleep / nap. I usually settle him with patting. He takes about 10-20mnts to settle himself to sleep. Could this be the cause that he's not gaining weight as well?

I feed him roughly every 4 hours now except in the afternoon that I usually feed him more frequently but he doesn't take a lot. He bites and it hurts He has 1 teeth now...

[First Time Mom]

How many wet diapers is he having? It doesn't sound like he's long at the breast and sometimes fed only on one side, this could potentially impact your supply which could result in him fussing at the breast if the milk isn't coming (which, could result in the zero weight gain and dehydration that you mentioned). In your lo's case I would definately start counting wet diapers again to make sure he's getting enough to eat.

For weight gain; in babies under 12 months they need to gain weight (or be given extra) from breast milk (or, formula if they are formula fed babies), in babies older than 12 months they need to get their "extra" in solid food.

Just my opinion but, I would concentrate on getting his weight up, making sure your supply is good, and making sure he does not get dehydrated again before worrying about your EASY routine. There are certain things you can make sure you are not doing to develop hard to break habits (ie. feeding to sleep) but otherwise, I would not worry about schedule and I would follow a very loose EASY until his weight is up and stable. Maybe even pop onto the bfing board for additional advice on the feeding from the mods there.